Finishing with wax?

[ian maybury]

I've built some workshop cabinets from what was less than good quality 18mm waterproof ply (the reddish Eastern variety), and sealed them with several coats of a Rustins water based acrylic satin finish - now sanded back.

They are intended to be functional rather than highly finished, but not rough either.

Is wax a reasonable way of finishing off over a roughly 320 grit sanded finish - I've not used it in this way before?

It's purposely not sanded out in the way that i would if going for a high finish, so there's inevitably some scratches and bits of texture left which i'm hoping that the wax will make less than obvious. Another coat of acrylic would lead to another major rubbing down session which in this case I'd rather avoid.

If so is there anything different about specialist finishing waxes compared to say the old style std Johnsons paste wax? Any stand out products, special considerations or labour saving moves in putting it on and polishing it off?

[Stew Hagerty]

I typically use an oil/wax mixture for the tops and a few sprayed on coats of shellac for everything else.
The old recipe is simple,
1 part heated Kerosene (I prefer Low Odor Mineral Spirits)
1 part Beeswax (I also added some finely shaved Carnuba for more durability)
and
1 part BLO (or you could use Tung Oil)

Heat the solvent I use an double boiler arrangement with lots of ventilation and NO OPEN FLAMES ANYWHERE!
slowly start dissolving the wax (Carnuba will take longer and a higher temp than Beeswax)
Once the wax is all dissolved, slowly start adding the oil (too fast and it will seize up the mixture and you will have to raise the temperature until it all melts again)
once everything is mixed well, pour it out into whatever container(s) you prefer. I personally use wide-mouth Ball jars. Once it is all cooled down, just scoop some out of the container and rub it in. Just the warmth of your hand is enough to soften the mixture. This is actually a good and traditional finish for many projects as well as shop items. I used it on he Heirloom rocking horse I made for my granddaughter. If it gets knocked, bumped, scratched, or whatever, all you need to do is rub in a bit more and everything matches again.

[John TenEyck]

Wax will fill scratches but won't get rid of any roughness that still exists. The only way to get rid of that is sanding until it's smooth and then apply more finish. Personally, I don't view shop cabinets as pieces of fine furniture; a coat or two of shellac or whatever else I have available meets my criteria.

John

[ian maybury]

Thanks guys, i have lots of modelling and motorcycle custom paint experience using airbrushes and touch up guns, but much less on wood finishing options apart from the basics like polyurethane varnishes and oil based paints. There's a whole world of traditional finishes I haven't really engaged with yet. Especially shellac which seems to have some great advantages as a compatible with everything barrier coat, a light and easily re-coated seal coat - and of course ultimately as a high end finish in the form of french polish. It isn't widely used, and hence isn't locally available here in Ireland, so it's a case of stocking up from a specialist supplier. Likewise in the case of the various wax based options....

I've been using the water based Rustin's satin acrylic floor coating mentioned for shop stuff as it goes on quickly with a sponge, sponge brush or even a roller, and dries very quickly. The downside is that it's very inclined to deliver an almost sandpaper like surface, especially with the first coat on something like ply where the surface is probably quite furry. (it doesn't really sand properly until there's some finish on it) After each coat I tend to just hit it with a block and then a fine abrasive mesh and leave it at that for more utilitarian stuff, especially over pale wood where it looks just fine.

This cabinet is a little fancier, and the dark colour shows up more. It's well flatted back John, there's only very small patches of light texture - the issue is more that there has to be scratching from the paper. Re-coating after rubbing down with the Rustins tends to become a chasing your tail sort of issue - it comes up a lot smoother, but still a bit 'pimply'.

Question to Stew: does a wax and oil mix like you describe cure to form a definite film? Will it fill scratch marks with cured material, or just semi solid wax? Would it (for future reference) be usefully resistant to water or hot cup marking for example? I've played around with a traditional paste was like Johnsons on wood and found that it tends to soak in, and that it doesn't really build or at least over time maintain much by way of even a sheen.

[Stew Hagerty]

Question to Stew: does a wax and oil mix like you describe cure to form a definite film? Will it fill scratch marks with cured material, or just semi solid wax? Would it (for future reference) be usefully resistant to water or hot cup marking for example? I've played around with a traditional paste was like Johnsons on wood and found that it tends to soak in, and that it doesn't really build or at least over time maintain much by way of even a sheen.

Not really more of a film buildup than paste wax. However, I do believe it is tougher than a typical oil finish followed by paste wax. I attribute this the the fact that the warmth of your hand softens the mix so that the solvent & oil carry the wax much deeper than just a top coat would. Then once the solvent dissapates, the oil cures, and the wax sets up, you're left with a finish that has penetrated enough that I don't see how it could not be more durable.

Besides, this is a very, very old finish. And those guys knew what they were doing. And it has survived the test of time.

When I was using this on the rocking horse, I picked up a hand held "wax brush" and a round one with the bristles mounted to a piece of wood that mounts to a drill. I found that I could apply a very heavy coat then follow with the drill brush. As it spins, it heats up and drives the mix even deeper than by hand. The hand held brush I just use on small jobs or to get in and around anything that sticks out.

[ian maybury]

Thanks Stew, will try that. Sounds like it's at it's best over natural wood (which enables it to penetrate), that it might not be the thing to put on over the water based acrylic above.

[Stew Hagerty]

Thanks Stew, will try that. Sounds like it's at it's best over natural wood (which enables it to penetrate), that it might not be the thing to put on over the water based acrylic above.

ian, you're right. I would not use it on anything but bare wood, and because of the wax, topcoats are neither necessary nor advisable.

[ian maybury]

Ta Stew. I've pretty much got the parts finished now.

They were already well coated in sponge brushed water based Rustins water based acrylic product above when I posted, and cut back - one concern was that another full coat would generate a big rubbing down job.

Some reading threw up that it was possible to dilute the acrylic with 10 -15% water, and to pad it on with a lint free cloth ball. (recommended in a Jeff Jewitt book) I did this with excellent results - it dried almost completely smooth and filled any scratches left from sanding. Regularised the colour a bit more too. It works beautifully - it'd be possible if needed to go in and touch up areas locally using this technique and leave little or no evidence of a join. (bearing in mind that it's satin finish/nothing that a light cut back wouldn't quickly eliminate)

There's a hint of texture left from the coarse grain of the ply still as i'd need to have used a grain filler first to have sorted that - or put on more heavy coats. It's 100% AOK for a workshop cabinet though.

According to Jeff i think i may have missed the opportunity to liven up the grain/colour by applying a coat of shellac before the water based acrylic - but again no big deal. It seems from elsewhere like it might as an alternative have been possible to use danish or tung oil as a colour improving seal coat too, but like it needs to be allowed to dry very completely to avoid problems. (maybe one to test in advance)

I'll wax it (wax only) using a fine 3M pad tomorrow, it should be spot on...

[Stew Hagerty]

Sounds like a plan Ian. I've never tried thinning the WB Poly and applying it that way. Now I have done that with shellac. I use 1 or two very thin 1/4lb cut as a blotch control. Especially if I plan on using a WB dye or non-gel stain.
In fact I have done that with Amber or Garner shellac to add just a tiny bit of warmth in leiu of dyes or stains.

[ian maybury]

I called Rustins, and they said it was OK to add up to 10 - 15% water to their product Stew. They also were clear that it's intended only for brushing - but as a above it padded/wiped on very nicely.

Just about the only issue with padding it on was that keeping the right amount in the pad (as probably with any finish) matters. It likes the pad to be quite wet - this gave a nice uniform looking coating, wheras if the pad got a little dry it didn't seem to wet right down into the surface/leave an incomplete film which left some slight variations in colour tone. Overdo the wetness and it's inlined to leave lines of liquid finish about the place which need wiping/cleaning off once some of the finish in the pad is used up. It can be a bit awkward if too wet if there's e.g. countersunk holes for screws or corners on the part, as the liquid finish can get in there and needs wiping out with a tissue or something. (if let set that way it'd form hard blobs)

Chances are that a bit of experimentation with the fabric type used to make the pad would pay off - something good and absorbent but lint free might be the plan...

[Stew Hagerty]

You know Ian, I don't believe I've ever heard of rustins. I use General Finish mostly. I use their HP or Enduro- Var and almost always spray it. If I'm going to put something on by hand, I use Behlen Master Gel finish.

[ian maybury]

I'm in Ireland Stew, so we don't get the amazing variety of speciality coatings you guys do. There's some (e.g. Zinsser products for example) available from speciality suppliers. I had thought Rustins was sold in the US, but maybe not - no show on a Google just now. They are primarily a UK manufacturer and supplier of higher end paints, coatings and finishing products: http://www.rustins.eu/web/products.asp

Much is generic in nature, but they offer a few fairly unique (for here) products like their two pack plastic coating - so far as I know it's a urea formaldehyde/acrylic resin. It's very clear, builds well, is tough and waterproof, and maybe best of all for a two pack clear cuts back and polishes beautifully without too much work. (works a bit like a tougher cellulose or a polyester)