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Thread: Nitrogen Tires

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stenzel View Post
    Sounds like a lot of hot air to me. I'll fill my tires with nitrogen when the NFL begins to fill footballs with nitrogen.

    "See, it wuz that leaky O2 that done it, it wuz!" -Tom Brady quote*


    -Tom

    *That I just made up
    Maybe not. Todays cars are going for optimal mileage, and the tires are part of that equation.

    On the race truck we would pick up 7-8 psi once heated up with compressor air, and with nitrogen we would pick up 2-3 psi. Street tires get pretty hot as well on a hot day, especially when loaded. Handling on all cars is impacted by tire pressure so in the interest of consistency it is not a bad idea, especially on a performance oriented vehicle. When I ran autocross I had tire warmers to get my tires up to temp, partly because the tire compound I was running needed to be warm, and to keep the pressure where I wanted it.

    I don't worry about it on my drivers, but hey, if its free when you get tires there is no downside.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton View Post

    I don't worry about it on my drivers, but hey, if its free when you get tires there is no downside.
    Shame on you, Larry!

    You're a businessman--you should know it's NOT "free". I bet the shops pay more money to have a nitrogen-fill system (in addition to compressors to run their air tools), so they have to raise their prices somewhat to pay for that nitrogen. They may not charge a line-item for it, but it's definitely wrapped into their overhead as part of the price of their other services.
    Jason

    "Don't get stuck on stupid." --Lt. Gen. Russel Honore


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Stankus View Post
    In high speed aircraft tires, nitrogen is specified not for leakage concerns but to reduce chance of fire during catastrophic tire failure.

    John
    p.s. As a related aside, most people don't realize that humid air is LESS dense than dry air. This is due to the water molecule having a much lower mass than oxygen or nitrogen molecules.
    I'm certainly not qualified to comment on most of your post but what I was told about air in aircraft tires is that it has to do with moisture. Bottled nitrogen is dry, compressed air may not be. What I was told by aircraft maintenance personnel is that tires filled with air may also have a fair bit of water vapor in it. Air temperatures above 35,000 ft. can get pretty chilly - like -40F to -60F chilly which would cause the moisture to condense. It could puddle then freeze. If the aircraft were landing at a cold destination that ice puddle probably won't melt before landing. You now have an unbalanced tire that's going from 0 to 100 m.p.h.+ in the blink of an eye. I was also told that if my choice was to run a tire low until I could find a nitrogen bottle or inflate with compressed air, to use the compressed air.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Harms View Post
    I'm certainly not qualified to comment on most of your post but what I was told about air in aircraft tires is that it has to do with moisture. Bottled nitrogen is dry, compressed air may not be. What I was told by aircraft maintenance personnel is that tires filled with air may also have a fair bit of water vapor in it. Air temperatures above 35,000 ft. can get pretty chilly - like -40F to -60F chilly which would cause the moisture to condense. It could puddle then freeze. If the aircraft were landing at a cold destination that ice puddle probably won't melt before landing. You now have an unbalanced tire that's going from 0 to 100 m.p.h.+ in the blink of an eye. I was also told that if my choice was to run a tire low until I could find a nitrogen bottle or inflate with compressed air, to use the compressed air.
    FAA airworthiness directive 87-08-09. Specifies nitrogen for flammability issues
    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...3?OpenDocument
    It does specify dry nitrogen but the focus is flammability

    John

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton View Post
    On the race truck we would pick up 7-8 psi once heated up with compressor air, and with nitrogen we would pick up 2-3 psi.
    Boyle's gas law says that your psi difference was probably water vapor going to steam and not the lack of oxygen since air is 78% nitrogen. Your nitrogen was like moisture free and unless you purged your tires, you still had a percentage of oxygen present from the air that was present before you pressurized the tire.
    Lee Schierer
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Stankus View Post
    FAA airworthiness directive 87-08-09. Specifies nitrogen for flammability issues
    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...3?OpenDocument
    It does specify dry nitrogen but the focus is flammability

    John
    I wonder if transports which is what this AD addresses are more prone to brake fires than G.A. aircraft. It would ultimately be down to what the aircraft publications as amended specify . One Citation II unofficial document called for either dry nitrogen or dry air. I did find this which is the first authoritative source I'm aware of that says nitrogen may reduce tire degradation.

    http://www.goodyearaviation.com/reso...raftmanual.pdf

    Page 11

    3. USE DRY NITROGEN GAS (WHEN REQUIRED)

    Nitrogen will not sustain combustion and will reduce degradation of the liner material, casing plies and wheel due to oxidation.
    Last edited by Curt Harms; 07-04-2015 at 10:23 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Schierer View Post
    Boyle's gas law says that your psi difference was probably water vapor going to steam and not the lack of oxygen since air is 78% nitrogen. Your nitrogen was like moisture free and unless you purged your tires, you still had a percentage of oxygen present from the air that was present before you pressurized the tire.
    I have no doubt that you are correct Lee, I just know that is what works. The tires would be so hot that you could not touch them for about fifteen minutes after the race. Measured the temps, but its been a few years and can't remember. Too hard a tire gets no traction, and too soft will come off the rim on hard hits.

  8. #38
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    After three pages of science on the subject, I thought I'd interject a bit of human engineering.

    Does anyone with nitrogen filled tires... done by a shop... KNOW, without a doubt, that they have 100% nitrogen in them?
    What a great way to make money. Offer, for an additional cost, nitrogen fill. Then you can put anything you like in there because 99.9% of the population has no way to test if there is nitrogen in the tire or just air. Just another placebo effect I'm certain. You believe you have nitrogen in your tires, thus begin to experience the alleged benefits.
    “Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity”

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Circo View Post
    After three pages of science on the subject, I thought I'd interject a bit of human engineering.

    Does anyone with nitrogen filled tires... done by a shop... KNOW, without a doubt, that they have 100% nitrogen in them?
    What a great way to make money. Offer, for an additional cost, nitrogen fill. Then you can put anything you like in there because 99.9% of the population has no way to test if there is nitrogen in the tire or just air. Just another placebo effect I'm certain. You believe you have nitrogen in your tires, thus begin to experience the alleged benefits.
    Where I got our tires at has a nitrogen filling station that has a high pressure nitrogen tank sitting in it with a regulator and the hose with the air chuck attached to it. Other places I have gotten tires and/or a flat patched from the inside of the tire - I cannot say.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Harms View Post
    I wonder if transports which is what this AD addresses are more prone to brake fires than G.A. aircraft. It would ultimately be down to what the aircraft publications as amended specify . One Citation II unofficial document called for either dry nitrogen or dry air. I did find this which is the first authoritative source I'm aware of that says nitrogen may reduce tire degradation.

    http://www.goodyearaviation.com/reso...raftmanual.pdf

    Page 11

    3. USE DRY NITROGEN GAS (WHEN REQUIRED)

    Nitrogen will not sustain combustion and will reduce degradation of the liner material, casing plies and wheel due to oxidation.
    Well, it looks like the Nitrogen is all fluff in the civilian population, but it is nice to have my own theory validated, however insignificant it may be in the real world.
    David
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  11. #41
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  12. #42
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    since when have aircraft tires changed to need nitrogen.

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