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Thread: 4th of July

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Ragan View Post
    Somebody said that history is written by the victors.

    It is very interesting how some writers can go into great detail about how a statesman's personal experiences/family life, etc influences the decisions that they make that effect so many others.





    I had the poor judgment to ask a British fellow a few years ago what the Brits did on July 4th. Of course, he was mildly offended, and shot back, 'what do you expect, us to cry in our beer?' An awkward moment.




    #1 above is precisely why Washington is so deserving of his status. Look around the world, how many times does someone lead a revolution, then turn over the reins?

    That was immediately after the war formally ended. He did it again after his second term, right?
    I am not an historian, but I believe you are correct. After the war, many (most?) wanted Washington as King. He said no. Then after the Constitutional Convention, he served two terms as president and stepped down. He could have stayed in office for the rest of his life, but didn't. I cannot think of any time in history when some voluntarily gave up power.

    Consider that every four years, perhaps eight when the president is re-elected, he steps down. Perhaps the most powerful person in the world now, just steps down. After 200+ years, we have precedent and the expectations of what takes place. The military would not support a departing president who wanted to stay in power, but 200 years ago, that was not the case. It is simply a miracle that it evolved the way it did.

  2. #32
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    Hi Keith, America, like Canada had two founding cultures, English and French.

    It's left both of us better for the wide range of culture and experiences.

    Happy July 4.................Regards, Rod.

  3. #33
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    We just buried my father, WWII vet and retired Lieutenant Colonel, USAF on July 3. I was amazed that the military provides a free headstone (a very nice one) to vets, and dad got an honor guard to close the ceremony and present the flag to my mom. It was the highlight of the ceremony. Dad was a recipient of the Air Medal and Distinguished Flying Cross.

  4. #34
    Very sorry for your loss Malcolm. I thank your entire family for their service to our country as a military family.
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  5. #35
    Malcolm, the stone is actually provided by the Veteran's Administration. To my mind it is a small thing when we consider what those who served have sacrificed or at the very least had the potential to sacrifice.

    With only 1% of our living population serving or having served in the armed forces and now having a completely volunteer military, there is a major disconnect and lack of understanding about our forces. Military people voluntarily give up many of the freedoms guaranteed to us by the bill or rights and accept a lot of restrictions. A friend of mine who recently retired from active USMC duty once sent me a photo from his small firebase in Helmud Province Afghanistan which succinctly sums up the situation. "America is not at war, the Marine Corps is at war...... America is at the Mall."

    A veteran is someone who at some time or other in their life wrote out a blank check payable to the United States of America for any amount up to and including their life.
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Anderson NH View Post
    A friend of mine who recently retired from active USMC duty once sent me a photo from his small firebase in Helmud Province Afghanistan which succinctly sums up the situation. "America is not at war, the Marine Corps is at war...... America is at the Mall."
    Hey Dave, How do you thing that we, as a population can do better?

    I generally agree with you, but what is the problem? the media/censorship? the Military making it look too easy? Our population being a bunch of spoiled brats? (can I say that?)

    When I was a kid, we had the Cold War, Vietnam, air raid drills @ school, Cuban Missile Crisis, lot of action down in Central and South America, etc.

    I have read that nearly everyone is ready to thank service women and men when they see them in uniform, and that Wounded Warrior, et al foundations are doing well from private donations.

    But, as a private citizen, I have to ask this.
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  7. #37
    I really don't know how to respond to you David without getting political and violating the TOS. About the only thing I can offer is that I believe that every American should do some form of national service for 2 years whether it be military, Peace Corps, Public Health Service, or something else entirely. That way everyone offers something to their country and understands the concept of service better. I think it would do much to build better citizens.
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  8. #38
    I hope this is not political. One thing that surprises me is that today, everyone loves the military people. But back during the Vietnam war, the soldiers were spit upon. And many of us back then didn't have a choice (or much of a choice) about being in the war. We were either drafted or joined because we were going to be drafted.

    I'll add one humorous anecdote - at least humorous to me. I have a twin brother who married young and was not drafted. A few years ago he was ranting to me about young people and said, "They should all be drafted and taught some discipline!" I replied to him, "First, the military is not charm school. It has a job to do and needs people who want to do that job. And I find it ironic that you, who managed to avoid service, now want to send every young person into harm's way."

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  9. #39
    Seriously guys, Malcolm says he buried his father 3 days ago and this is what your response it? Please take a step back and put things into perspective.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    Seriously guys, Malcolm says he buried his father 3 days ago and this is what your response it? Please take a step back and put things into perspective.
    So true, Rod. Very tacky of us. The WWII guys and gals were really The Greatest Generation. My Dad got turned down for flat feet.

    Malcolm-I guess it can never be said enough to Veterans, and their families--thanks for the sacrifice. Without that, none of the things we enjoy (none) would be possible. Look at the sorry state in so many other countries, especially those run by non-democratic means.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    I hope this is not political. One thing that surprises me is that today, everyone loves the military people. But back during the Vietnam war, the soldiers were spit upon.
    I didn't understand that phenomena back then. The politicians make war, not the soldiers. Everyone understands that, right? Lots of folks join the military for various reasons. I have never heard anyone say that they joined up to kill folks or other nefarious reasons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Anderson NH View Post
    I really don't know how to respond to you David without getting political and violating the TOS. About the only thing I can offer is that I believe that every American should do some form of national service for 2 years whether it be military, Peace Corps, Public Health Service, or something else entirely. That way everyone offers something to their country and understands the concept of service better. I think it would do much to build better citizens.
    Yes, it occurred to me after I wrote that--Dang-that might be hard for him to answer (candidly).

    I wasn't baiting you.

    I tried to join the Navy in college, but when I admitted I had smoked weed recently (for the record, it has been decades since anything like that), they turned me down flat.

    2 years is not a lot to ask, and no doubt would help out a lot of youngsters grow up, and learn how to act, respect authority, take responsibility, etc. But.........just think how majorly expensive that would be to us.....you'd have all those youngsters, many of which would not want to be there, the administrative burden would be astronomical. Just all the ne'er-do-wells that really needed it would be the most expensive. I imagine there are enough problems administering The Military with folks who want to be there, maybe in their 20s. Think about compulsory service age 18, and do two years. The budget would probably dwarf what we spend on lots of other programs.
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Schweizer View Post
    We just buried my father, WWII vet and retired Lieutenant Colonel, USAF on July 3. I was amazed that the military provides a free headstone (a very nice one) to vets, and dad got an honor guard to close the ceremony and present the flag to my mom. It was the highlight of the ceremony. Dad was a recipient of the Air Medal and Distinguished Flying Cross.
    I'm sorry to hear about your Dad, Malcolm. Please accept my thanks on behalf of him, for protecting all of the rest of us over the years. I wish you and your family comfort and peace.
    Fred

  12. #42
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    Sorry to hear of your dad's passing Malcolm. It sounds like he had a solid military career.

    Like others have mentioned I really think they were America's best generation so far. Just my thoughts but to me, the only generation that is competitive with them would be the generation of our founding fathers.

    PHM

  13. #43
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    Thanks everyone. He lived almost 97 years and did not suffer. Born 15 years after the Wright Brothers made their first flight, then flew in one of the most famous flying machines ever- the B26 Marauder, and lived to see a man on the moon, a space probe on Mars, and one that exited our solar system. To infinity and beyond!

    Anyway, I just wanted to mention how cool it was that he got the honor guard and a bronze headstone. I was very appreciative of that and felt like his service was very appreciated to the very end. The honor guard really took it seriously and I will never forget when she presented the flag to my mom and thanked her for his service. It was clearly very heartfelt.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm Schweizer View Post
    We just buried my father, WWII vet and retired Lieutenant Colonel, USAF on July 3. I was amazed that the military provides a free headstone (a very nice one) to vets, and dad got an honor guard to close the ceremony and present the flag to my mom. It was the highlight of the ceremony. Dad was a recipient of the Air Medal and Distinguished Flying Cross.
    I have been to two military funerals - one Army, one Marine. One was at Arlington National, for a person with the rank to warrant the horse-drawn caisson. The servicemen and women on those details do not take their responsibilities lightly, from what I have seen.

    From me:

    A bowed head, and a silent prayer, to honor a decorated American veteran and hero.

    The rank of Lt Col does not come easily, and the DFC much less easy still.

    Rest in Peace, Lt Col Schweizer.
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