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Thread: Something better than paste wax for cast iron? Doesn't feel "slick" enough...

  1. #16
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    I agree, the surface finish of the CI has a lot to do with how well wax works on it. My old Unisaw is really smooth and when it's waxed wood just glides over it. My newer C-man saw has a ground, swirly finish that you can easily feel. Wax helps, but it's not nearly as slick as the Unisaw.

    John

  2. #17
    I use a car wax for both my car and my shop including cast iron, Aluminum surfaces. it's called Collinite Liquid Insulator wax #845 , it makes the CI top very slick, lasts a few months.
    Collinite now offers a new wax just for metal.

  3. #18
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    Hi John. As you probably know that sounds like it might be Blanchard/Lumsden (UK) grinding - it's a type of grinder that uses a large disc with abrasive pads mounted on a vertical shaft. Commonly used for large area jobbing production grinding, but needs care to deliver high accuracies on flat surfaces.

    I'm guessing from the lack of response that the prospect of de-toothing coarsely machined cast iron machine tables using a sanding block (a diamond plate with mineral spirits works well too) is causing a sharp in breath in many cases.

    It needs some judgement/it's an at your own risk deal, and I certainly wouldn't take a coarse paper or plate to a very finely ground table. I wouldn't either run wild with anything coarse without working up to it via small area tests first. (if the surface gets scratched quite a lot of rubbing with successively finer grits may be required to get back to a regular/uniform looking finish again) Against that flatting with a relatively fine wet and dry paper (it's only going to be necessary on a coarsely milled or ground surface) is much more painless than it sounds.

    Start with the finest paper you think you might get away with
    , and only progressively/as needed go coarser. Then finish with the finer stuff again. It's a relatively quick job, and almost no measurable amount of metal should be removed - so there's no great risk (short of rubbing away like crazy in an area) of causing an out of flatness problem.

    Sanding using a coarser than required paper or plate might leave a scratched looking surface/might greatly change the look of a very finely finished/ground surface because the grits might cut right down through the machining marks to scratch most of the surface area. There's however no need to touch an already finely finished surface - or at least only the need to use a very fine paper.

    On a surface that's rough/toothy enough to genuinely need attention to reduce friction (e.g. Chinese style milled or coarsely ground tables) the aim is only to clip the tips of the high points or ridges. The visual effect in this latter case is negligible (just a moderate brightening), but because it knocks the toothing/serrations off the tops of the ridges it has a pretty spectacular effect in terms of reducing friction. It's very obvious if a hand is rubbed over it before and after.

    This photo shows the sort of surface that block sanding with wet and dry paper used with mineral spirits and then waxing produced on my Hammer F3 shaper - you can see from the machining marks that it started out quite rough, but equally that the fact that it's been sanded is not visually obvious. The saw table and planer/thicknesser rising table were done the same way (the main tables on the planer had some out of flatness issues, and so were scraped flat - this cut off all the original machining marks, and sidestepped the need for sanding):

    f3 diy fence adj in situ 5-7-14.jpg
    Last edited by ian maybury; 07-04-2015 at 9:43 PM.

  4. #19
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    If wax feels sticky then you need to buff more. I'm going to guess you are applying way too much wax. Thick in one coat is not better.
    A can of past wax should last years.
    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
    - Rick Dale

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    I agree. Something is amiss. When I buff JPW on my CI it is slick as can be. Material just floats across. I'm corn-fused.
    That works for me to. I use a buffing pad in my drill.
    Army Veteran 1968 - 1970
    I Support the Second Amendment of the US Constitution

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lehnert View Post
    If wax feels sticky then you need to buff more. I'm going to guess you are applying way too much wax. Thick in one coat is not better.
    A can of past wax should last years.
    Hmmm. Maybe. I think this might just be a problem of me having too high of expectations. I'm going to try some of the Top-Cote product and report back...

  7. #22
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    Johnson's paste wax has an ingredient in it to prevent slipping. Yes, prevent slipping. Think about that newly waxed hardwood floor and a woman wearing high heels, potential disaster.

    The best product I have used is Butcher's wax, made for bowling alleys. It does not have the non slip agent in it. It makes a big difference.

  8. #23
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    Not to be pushy Dan, but you asked a question and i went to a fair amount of trouble to set out how surface finish can be an issue in getting wood to slide on cast iron machine tables, and how it's sometimes possible to improve the situation by sanding them. (didn't want anybody rushing off and doing damage to their tables as a result of just lobbing in a throwaway comment) There's times when it's just too big an ask for wax alone to solve the problem.

    Would you mind please just offering a view as to whether or not this might or might not be an issue in your case? Just what sort of surfaces/by what maker are you talking about? Have they been finely ground, or do they look milled or coarsely ground?
    Last edited by ian maybury; 07-05-2015 at 9:23 AM.

  9. #24
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    I have banned anything containing silicone from my shop. The absolute best way to ruin a project finish is to get silicone on it. Silicone = Fisheyes everywhere in the finish, and you can't seem to sand it or remove it completely once it's there. Yes, it makes surfaces slippery, but you will regret using it when you try to apply the finish on your project, and the real horror comes when you discover that it has managed to somehow get on everything in your shop. You clean it off of your table saw, only to discover the hard way that it has gotten onto your, jointer, planer, sanders, etc. Nothing you make after you use the silicone will ever finish 100% correct again.

    Charley

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ian maybury View Post
    Not to be pushy Dan, but you asked a question and i went to a fair amount of trouble to set out how surface finish can be an issue in getting wood to slide on cast iron machine tables, and how it's sometimes possible to improve the situation by sanding them. (didn't want anybody rushing off and doing damage to their tables as a result of just lobbing in a throwaway comment) There's times when it's just too big an ask for wax alone to solve the problem.

    Would you mind please just offering a view as to whether or not this might or might not be an issue in your case? Just what sort of surfaces/by what maker are you talking about? Have they been finely ground, or do they look milled or coarsely ground?
    Ah, sorry Ian. Yes, I suppose that could be part of the problem. I have an assortment of different CI finishes (new CI, some older pieces that I've wet sanded, and some of the euro-style ridged surfaces). In particular, I don't think I'd want to touch the ridged surface, but I may give wet sanding another try if I can't find a more slippery product to coat it with.

  11. #26
    Good thread.


    I've always used Boeshield T9, with power buffing afterwards, but it doesn't get quite as slick as I'd like. (even on vintage, quality cast iron.) However I do love the ease of application. Also Boeshield is great for getting into nooks & crannies, like hand planes & gears. It disperses water much like WD4, but then leaves a long-lasting wax coating.

    - But I'm now itching to try some Butcher's wax.

    Curious: A lot of w-workers swear by Renaissance wax. It's much more expensive, but supposedly has a "microcrystalline" structure, and that's either beneficial of complete marketing hoooey. Has anyone ever compared Ren wax to Butchers / bowling alley wax?

  12. #27
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    I have a can of Butcher's Wax that I bought almost fifteen years ago, haven't used half of it yet. I use it on all my CI surfaces. Yesterday I was having a problem with feeding some very dry ash through my Ridgid TP1300 planer, to the point where I had to push the board manually through the planer. I wiped down the feed rollers and planer bed with denatured alcohol, and then waxed the bed with a thin coat of BW and buffed out. Night and day difference, the planer fed the rest of the ash through without any effort from me. You only need a thin coat, let it dry for a couple of minutes, and then buff out with a clean rag (old t-shirts work well).

    I have tried the Boeshield products and was not impressed. Still think I have most of a can of T-9 somewhere.
    Jon Endres
    Killing Trees Since 1983

  13. #28
    I know this is considered heresy, but I did not want my new Hammer K3 to get rusty, so I took a rag and a little wipe on poly and went over the top. Does not soak in like on wood, just puts a very thin surface coat on the table. Does not rust as well as makes the table fairly slick. After it is used for a while.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    I agree. Something is amiss. When I buff JPW on my CI it is slick as can be. Material just floats across. I'm corn-fused.
    Same here. I apply it with a 3M grey pad, and immediately wipe it off. Slick as can be across the TS, Jointer, Planer.......

    Maybe OP's machines are aligned so that the lumber travels North-South?? The wax works much better when the lumber is travelling East-West. Only north of the equator of course - something to do with the coriolis effect, from what I have read.
    When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.

  15. #30
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    If it was posted already,excuse me......

    What's your humidity level in your shop?The dryer it is,the slicker most of this equipment becomes,somewhat irrespective of this ,vs that wax/lube.I'm REALLY lazy about waxing but we're in pretty tightly controlled air quality and humidity condition,and it just doesn't seem to be a problem.Translated;Seeing a noticeable difference between waxed/no wax....and stopping the show to wax a top?

    +1 on Charles post #24.It's not that we can't deal with contaminates here,but why go through it?Just say no.

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