Shavehorse

[David Ragan]

Am thinking about building a shavehorse.

there are some cool examples-Brian Boggs, a copy of which is on this Forum a few years ago (it looks much nicer than what I would like)

And on YouTube, there is a huge amount of video by a guy Curtis Buchannon he has one, that looks simpler than the above.

Regardless of the design, it will stay inside:

Anybody have a simple easy design?

Can I make it out of BORG pine, fir, etc?

[Christian Thompson]

If you want to go really simple to get going on your project, I built this "benchtop shave horse": http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/...35utJnyc5n8%3D. I built it using 2x4s and 1x4s and it works surprisingly well. One of these days I want to build a real one, though.

[Karl Andersson]

David,
you can definitely make one out of BORG wood - I'd use DF 2x wood if at all possible, or pick through the hem-fir stuff for boards with tighter rings. DF has good tensile strength, so would be a bit less wobbly than the others -if your BORG carries SYP, then even better.

Drew Langsner at Country workshops has plans/ photos of both a traditional shaving horse http://www.countryworkshops.org/Shav...e%20Plans.html and a modernized, 2x lumber shaving mule (free plans): http://countryworkshops.org/shavingmule.html . to my eye, the mule may be a better choice for softer woods, as you sit on them on-edge; the horse, with its single flat plank, may be too springy unless you have some 3-inch thick DF. I made a similar sit-on carving table out of DF and compared to a hardwood version, it's much lighter to carry around and still has plenty of strength - just use wide washers on all bolt heads and nuts for the structural fasteners, otherwise you will end up tunneling the heads with a smaller washer halfway through the timber as you tighten up with wear (oops...)

good luck, let us know how it turns out,
Karl

[David Ragan]

if your BORG carries SYP, then even better.

Thanks Karl. what is SYP please?

I'm trying to KISS. I dont' want the shave horse to be a major production, esp cause a friend has some fresh oak and hickory for me-and I need to split it.

so, my additional question is: I dont' have the metal wedges for starting to split the log. Is there a way to do it other than buy them, and I will probably need to buy, I guess three of those, then make some Dogwood larger wedges to complete the split, right?

What is the cheapest way to accomplist splitting the log. it is white oak, about a foot across (no knots) 5-6 ft long. I asked for smaller hickory piece.

I just called my friend yesterday, and he has the wood ready, but I am not ready at all. I have nothing to process all this with, and all this riving and shaving has to be done with the wood green, or at least not cured, right?

[Robert Norman]

Southern Yellow Pine

I split logs that size with camp axes and hatchets. Bury one where you want the split and hit it with anything heavy, preferably non metallic if you like your hatchets.
You could buy wedges as well, and probably be done very quickly.

[Steve Voigt]

so, my additional question is: I dont' have the metal wedges for starting to split the log. Is there a way to do it other than buy them, and I will probably need to buy, I guess three of those, then make some Dogwood larger wedges to complete the split, right?

What is the cheapest way to accomplist splitting the log. it is white oak, about a foot across (no knots) 5-6 ft long. I asked for smaller hickory piece.

I just called my friend yesterday, and he has the wood ready, but I am not ready at all. I have nothing to process all this with, and all this riving and shaving has to be done with the wood green, or at least not cured, right?

My priority would be splitting and riving; you can worry about the shavehorse later. You need 2 steel wedges (3 is nice but you can get by w/2) and some larger wooden ones. Dogwood is nice but not required; I would see if your friend has some little offcuts of oak or hickory from the tree. Any triangular piece of wood will work--I have even used pine!

You will also need a froe and riving break. My homemade froe and ghetto brake are here, if you are looking for cheap, quick, homemade. If I were making the froe again, I would use 1/4" steel instead of 5/16".

What you really should do is head over to Galbert's blog, chairnotes, and just read the whole thing from start to finish. And watch the first few installments from Curtis's Windsor chair series on Youtube. They will tell you everything you need to know; the rest is just experience.

[David Ragan]

My priority would be splitting and riving; you can worry about the shavehorse later. You need 2 steel wedges (3 is nice but you can get by w/2) and some larger wooden ones. Dogwood is nice but not required; I would see if your friend has some little offcuts of oak or hickory from the tree. Any triangular piece of wood will work--I have even used pine!

You will also need a froe and riving break. My homemade froe and ghetto brake are here, if you are looking for cheap, quick, homemade. If I were making the froe again, I would use 1/4" steel instead of 5/16".

What you really should do is head over to Galbert's blog, chairnotes, and just read the whole thing from start to finish. And watch the first few installments from Curtis's Windsor chair series on Youtube. They will tell you everything you need to know; the rest is just experience.

Thanks Steve-

Do you mean, that after I have the green wood down into relatively straight grain pieces for legs, spindles, etc. that I can set them aside and let them cure...the curing wont be an issue after initial selection and rough sizing?

I found Galbert's blog. Man, I started in 2007. Cheaper than buying a book. You mean the entire thing, right?

Have watched a lot of Curtis's YouTube stuff already.

[Steve Voigt]

Do you mean, that after I have the green wood down into relatively straight grain pieces for legs, spindles, etc. that I can set them aside and let them cure...the curing wont be an issue after initial selection and rough sizing?

I didn't really mean that…I just meant that if I were in your position, the shaving horse would not be a priority. A shaving horse is not a necessity. If you are going to make a lot of chairs, it will save you time. If you are just going to make a couple, making the horse will take a lot longer than the time you save using it.

If I were in your shoes, with an oak log waiting for me, I would get it split and rived as soon as I could. I would put some thought and effort into storing the rivings, too. Best is to sticker them outside, elevated, and with lots of circulation, but well protected from sun and rain. A garage or basement will work but is not as good as outdoors. And make sure you seal the ends with paint or anchorseal or something, asap.

You can certainly wait as long as you want to drawknife, spokeshave, or turn your stock, but the drier it gets, the more work it will be, especially the drawknifing.

[Michael Ray Smith]

I agree. I've also seen these called shave ponies. I made one very similar to this one with a couple of additions. I attached the top piece, C in the diagram, to the uprights the same way the piece marked A is attached to the uprights, then another sets of holes for C so I have a couple of choices for holding pieces of different thicknesses. And rather than holding it to the bench with a clamp, I added a piece to one side of the long horizontal member so it can be clamped in a vice.

[David Ragan]

I have these:

DSCN0518.JPG

Have never used them. The one on the left is used to shape stuff more round, right?

I'll have to wait till next month to get the logs.

How do I anchor my round parts to use the above w/o a shavehorse? Make one of the benchtop models, I guess.

I got the Jeff Miller book. Lots of boring technical information. I'd like to make the Maloof rocker first. I guess that's too ambitious?

(Yes-I know, chairs must withstand a lot of stress and you gotta understand the basics first.......)

Have no real interest in making boring looking chairs like used @ a school/church social function.

[Archie England]

A Scorp shave is the one on the left, which is for scooping out wood (primarily ? for chair making and seat bottoms).

[Mike Holbrook]

Like Archie says the scorp/inshave is for hollowing out the deeper sections in a chair seat. I believe the "drawknife" you show is a Flexcut, very small, with a very flexible blade. I have one but have never figured out exactly what to do with it. In my opinion it isn't much use for carving chair spindles or chair seats, it is just to light and flexible. I would look at the drawknives made by Barr Tools or Woodjoy for a starting out tool. It took me a while to find serviceable drawknives at auctions. The good ones took a fair amount of work to get into working order which can be frustrating for a new user trying to learn a new tool. Unless you are taking a class with Peter Galbert or Drew Lagsner, like I did, and they offer to tune them for you...

I took a class from Drew at Country Workshops a few months back. Drew was working on a few modifications to the shavehorses he sells. I believe the shavehorses Drew sold were made by Tom Donahey. If you go to the Country Workshops site there are pictures of the newer models and a folding Japanese version, there is now a free download for plans too. Drew's sawhorses are about $400 shipped, vs 3-4 times that for the LN version of the Boggs shavehorse. I just bought one, figuring by the time I bought all the supplies etc. and the time it would have taken to figure out the design and make it... Although I think Steve makes a good point about not needing a shavehorse to start, I think with all a new green woodworker has to think about and learn it is nice not to have to worry about holding the work. The thing I like about a shavehorse is it is difficult to run the sharp blade into ones body. Not saying it can't or hasn't been done but with both hands on a drawknife it is pretty hard to pull ones arms into the body. I worried and used a ballistic or leather apron for quite a while before I figured out my hands just naturally stopped before I reached the danger zone.

Peter Galberts new book "Chairmaker's Notebook" is excellent, tons of information, excellent illustrations, done by Pete who has an art degree...

[Pat Barry]

Do you mean, that after I have the green wood down into relatively straight grain pieces for legs, spindles, etc. that I can set them aside and let them cure...the curing wont be an issue after initial selection and rough sizing?.

No. The split pieces will dry much more quickly than the log. I don't follow Steve's comment. I think the wood can stay in log for much longer and you can work on your shave horse now. Doing it the other way around does not make sense to me. Once you split it and let it sit too long you lose all the benefit of using green wood. Take the log and seal the fresh cut ends to keep them from drying out, make your shave horse, split a bit at a time, no more than you can actually work before it dries out.

[Mike Holbrook]

Although there are infinite ways to make a chair, I find two large categories in terms of chair making techniques. Some more modern designers/builders tend to saw out pieces and finish them using sanders and other power tools. There is also a group of chair builders who build chairs using older traditional hand tools like the scorp and drawknife David shows us above. The more traditional chair builders tend to work with green wood for at least some parts of their chairs. Windsors, in particular, are designed to be light and flexible, requiring thin but strong, flexible pieces. Green wood allows the traditionalists to work with a softer wood that is easier to work with the grain. The drawknife and spokeshave tend to remove layers of wood along the grain lines which produces pieces with the grain running the length of the object. Pieces that have the grain running the entire length of the object can be made thinner without loosing strength. Long grain also makes chair spindles more like noodles and less like glass. Peter Galbert loves to demonstrate the flexibility of his windsors by bending the backs into positions that would break a normal chair into lots of smaller pieces. The backs of well made windsor chairs actually move with the person sitting in them.

There are obviously many beautifully made modern chairs being made today but they are often built using very different techniques and tools than the more traditional: windsor, old Welsh stick chairs and slat backs. Maybe some of the more modern chairs use some of the old techniques but I think the chairs are typically much heavier. Instead of milling wood into chair parts the more traditional methods tend to make longer thinner more flexible parts that are steam bent into the required shape and dried in the bending forms. Flexible spindles for windsors do not require that the mortises made for them line up exactly because the spindles can simply be bent to fit. I actually found assembly of my continuous arm windsor to be easier than the assembly of a welsh stick chair that had much shorter, heavier, less flexible spindles that had to match more precisely to an inflexible arm rest and seat.

I took a class on making a low back stick chair expecting it to be easier to make than the continuous arm windsor I made in another class. I found the stick chair to actually be harder to make because of the larger, heavier pieces, especially the arm and back. Gluing multiple pieces of wood into a curved back and then shaping the hard wood into something more serviceable was much harder than the 45 seconds it took to steam bend the arm and back for my continuous arm windsor. Although I have not made any of the more modern sculpted chairs I expect the glue ups and work to sculpt the arm, back and other larger pieces would be a more involved process like making the stick chair arm rest. All the grain directions in those larger curved parts complicate the sculpting of the wood, making it hard to work with a dawknife or spokeshave, suggesting the use of milling tools.

[David Ragan]

[QUOTE=Mike Holbrook;2442914]Although there are infinite ways to make a chair, I find two large categories in terms of chair making techniques. Some more modern designers/builders tend to saw out pieces and finish them using sanders and other power tools. There is also a group of chair builders who build chairs using older traditional hand tools like the scorp and drawknife David shows us above. The more traditional chair builders tend to work with green wood for at least some parts of their chairs. Windsors, in particular, are designed to be light and flexible, requiring thin but strong, flexible pieces. Green wood allows the traditionalists to work with a softer wood that is easier to work with the grain. The drawknife and spokeshave tend to remove layers of wood along the grain lines which produces pieces with the grain running the length of the object. Pieces that have the grain running the entire length of the object can be made thinner without loosing strength. Long grain also makes chair spindles more like noodles and less like glass. Peter Galbert loves to demonstrate the flexibility of his windsors by bending the backs into positions that would break a normal chair into lots of smaller pieces. The backs of well made windsor chairs actually move with the person sitting in them.
QUOTE]

I have in mind to work with green wood. And use mostly hand tools.

I dont want to make any of those blocky ordinary plain chairs.

It seems like a lot more fun to make something w green wood using hand tools. More organic.

Mike-you are right down the road from me (Exit 13 and 400.)