Shavehorse

[Maurice Ungaro]

[QUOTE=David Ragan;2442955]

Mike-you are right down the road from me (Exit 13 and 400.)

......I was wondering how long it would take you guys to figure that out........

[David Ragan]

I found a local sawmill that will cut me a green piece of white oak log. Nice, accommodating guy.

I asked for straight grain, 6" by 6" by 4-5'. No knots.

This is just to experiment with. (I need a froe and brake.) I mean experiment with making some Windsor chair parts.

Besides Anchor Seal to the ends-how to store for 2-3 weeks to prevent drying? Outside in shade in plastic?

[paul cottingham]

Consider buying Mike Abbots book "Going with the Grain." It's a great repository of green woodworking ideas. More to the point, he has a plan for making an extremely functional shavehorse out of 2x4 lumber. I used 4 all told, I think (at a cost of about $8.00 or so) and a bunch of lag screws (about $15.00 worth.) Unless you are as big as me (260lbs) you could safely use deck screws, I suspect.

its nowhere near as pretty as many other designs, but it's very functional, and I built it in about 2 hours. So a normal person could do it much faster, especially if you don't use lags.

i have copies of chair books by Langsner, Alexander, Galbert, and Abbot. Abbots shavehorse is the easiest and fastest to make. Any of those books, if you can find them, are excellent, but if I needed a couple quickly, I would use Abbots and Galberts books to build my first chair. In fact, when I can finally find a scorp and an adze that I can afford and a tree to chop down, I'm going to build a few out of Abbots book (post and rung) first, then graduate to Windsors.

As an aside, John (now Jenny) Alexander's DVD on making post and rung chairs is fantastic. I highly recommend it.

[Karl Andersson]

for keeping it "fresh wet" or close to it during storage, I'd recommend wrapping it in old towels and then plastic. I've done it in warm weather with just plastic, and the condensation/ evaporation in the plastic formed standing water that grew mildew, mold, and a fungus that spalted the maple I wrapped. That was an unforeseen benefit for those bowls, but I also had some red oak that grew mildew that stained about 1/4' deep. The wood shouldn't be dripping wet anyways, and the towels do a good job of equalizing the moisture on the surface. In my experience, of course - I don't make chairs, but bowls, spoons, and boxes from green wood.
Karl

[Paul Saffold]

Paul, check out these guys. They're in your neck of the woods. http://www.kestreltool.com. A Kestrel Sitka gutter adze blade is only $65. It comes with instructions for making the handle. It doesn’t look like attaching the blade to the handle with twine would be very secure, but it is. The blade comes VERY sharp.

[Mike Holbrook]

David,

I sent you another PM. You are welcome to try out my tools, shavehorse, sharpening gear....just about any time. I work at home and I am usually around. I have a good chain saw and tractor, we can find a tree somewhere that is interested in becoming chair parts.

[David Ragan]

Here is my rendition of the Mike Abbott Shavehorse.

I read a child can do it in 2 hours, of course it took me 7.

Nothing special about it, except:

1) I finally used the hydraulic table purchased months ago. You all said it would come in handy. It did.
2) See in the picture where the 2x4 legs hit the floor? I remembered the simple trick of how to cut them exactly straight across so they are flush with floor.
3) All the stuff you all told me about hand saw joinery cuts in an earlier thread, I remembered-am satisfied with my cuts on legs
4) And it was a 'first use tool day' for a 1" Brad point bit, a huge Irwin clamp, and the hydraulic table.

I have asked lots of questions, sprinkled with flippant comments-just wanted all the genuine experts to know that I been taking it all in.

The pictures look like the Shavehorse is not level....trust me, it is exactly level both ways

Hydraulic table perfect for getting the legs right:

DSCN0525.JPG


It's not pretty. I deserve a medal for doing something, especially in a single day. Great design by Mike Abbott. Now, if I had some decent green wood to start making a chair.......





DSCN0533.JPG

[paul cottingham]

Looks like mine, only much neater! I used lag bolts to hold it together, but I'm a big guy. I didn't bother flattening the bottoms of the legs.
On a side note, I made 2 of the work holders (the swinging part of the vice). I plan to notch one and line it with leather for holding "the work" at 45 degrees (corners up and down,) if you know what I mean.
I also followed Mike Abbots idea of setting the seat members apart and at angles. Great for using as a riving brake.

[paul cottingham]

Paul, check out these guys. They're in your neck of the woods. http://www.kestreltool.com. A Kestrel Sitka gutter adze blade is only $65. It comes with instructions for making the handle. It doesn’t look like attaching the blade to the handle with twine would be very secure, but it is. The blade comes VERY sharp.

Cool. I am definitely going to check that out. Looks like a very nice adze for the money. Thanks!

[Mike Holbrook]

Looks good David,

Similar to the Country Workshops design. We will get you some green wood soon. You can try out different green woodworking tools and see what you like when we get together. I have chairs I am putting together that hopefully prove that almost anyone can do it.

The chairs I have made sort of break down into 3 major part categories. 1) Spindles and often the backs and arm rests are made from red or white oak worked with drawknives and spokeshaves. The continuous arm windsor has one long thin piece that is bent into the back of the chair and arm rests. Other windsors may use multiple pieces for the arms, back..2) Seats for windsors are typically made from glued up poplar, pine or elm boards. A template is used to mark the various sections of the seat. The basic shape is cut out with a bandsaw and worked with adze, scorp travisher...3) The legs and rungs are frequently turned from dry maple, although they can also be made with green wood tools or hand planes and the same wood as the spindles (for tapered octagonal legs for example).

Yes, there are typically three types of wood or more in a windsor. The hard wood spindles, arm support pieces and legs tend to hold well when driven into the softer wood in the seat. Pieces that carry a good deal of weight usually use through mortises with wedges to give them even more strength.

A windsor could be built with two different woods. Hard woods for spindles, backs and arm rests. Legs that are turned are frequently made from a third wood, hard maple, because the wood is less apt to break after being turned. Turning woods with lots of changing grain often leaves brittle pieces when trying to make light chair legs. One can use the same white or red oak used in the top portion of the chair to make the legs but they may be significantly heavier, less attractive and a little out of place on a windsor with thin delicate spindles.

[David Ragan]

Looks like mine, only much neater! I used lag bolts to hold it together, but I'm a big guy. I didn't bother flattening the bottoms of the legs.
On a side note, I made 2 of the work holders (the swinging part of the vice). I plan to notch one and line it with leather for holding "the work" at 45 degrees (corners up and down,) if you know what I mean.
I also followed Mike Abbots idea of setting the seat members apart and at angles. Great for using as a riving brake.

Riving break? His books are sold out on Amazon. I'm 265lb. Now I gotta figure out how to get it outa the way when not using it.

Looks good David,

Similar to the Country Workshops design. We will get you some green wood soon. You can try out different green woodworking tools and see what you like when we get together. I have chairs I am putting together that hopefully prove that almost anyone can do it.

The chairs I have made sort of break down into 3 major part categories. 1) Spindles and often the backs and arm rests are made from red or white oak worked with drawknives and spokeshaves. The continuous arm windsor has one long thin piece that is bent into the back of the chair and arm rests. Other windsors may use multiple pieces for the arms, back..2) Seats for windsors are typically made from glued up poplar, pine or elm boards. A template is used to mark the various sections of the seat. The basic shape is cut out with a bandsaw and worked with adze, scorp travisher...3) The legs and rungs are frequently turned from dry maple, although they can also be made with green wood tools or hand planes and the same wood as the spindles (for tapered octagonal legs for example).

Yes, there are typically three types of wood or more in a windsor. The hard wood spindles, arm support pieces and legs tend to hold well when driven into the softer wood in the seat. Pieces that carry a good deal of weight usually use through mortises with wedges to give them even more strength.

A windsor could be built with two different woods. Hard woods for spindles, backs and arm rests. Legs that are turned are frequently made from a third wood, hard maple, because the wood is less apt to break after being turned. Turning woods with lots of changing grain often leaves brittle pieces when trying to make light chair legs. One can use the same white or red oak used in the top portion of the chair to make the legs but they may be significantly heavier, less attractive and a little out of place on a windsor with thin delicate spindles.

"When the student is ready, the Teacher will appear"

I have a lot to learn. Hopefully not too much more to buy.

Thanks Mike, I look forward to meeting you. How early do you get up on a Saturday?

[Mike Holbrook]

I'm a beginner too. I took a couple class from guys who I believe know what they are talking about, Peter Galbert, "Making a Continuous Arm Windsor Chair" Drew Langsner "Making a Welsh Stick Chair", Chris Schwarz "Making a pair of Sawbenches" using the same techniques for making and attaching the sawbench legs.

We let client dogs out every morning except Mondays. An employee/friend handles Monday AM. We have to let our 6 German Shepherds and three Lancashire Heelers out, get breakfast....before we let client dogs out so 7-8 AM most mornings. I cheated a little this AM. Got to get to work. We will have some fun.

The point I think I was trying to make above is the spindles, chair back and arm rest wood are what are usually crucial to work green. Maple for legs is, I believe, often turned from dry wood. Seats are not a big deal to work dry as the wood is soft anyway. The wood to be bent can be bent dry too as dry wood bends as well or better than wet wood. The issue is often getting the wood worked and into a drying kiln before it can split or crack. The smaller the pieces the easier that is to do. From what I understand many professional chair makers make things in batches roughing them out and drying them, then doing the final work and fitting. Guys like Galbert can whip out near perfect chair spindles from green wood in a small fraction of the time it takes us beginners.

In chair classes they often work spindles into several different shapes within a few days so the student learns all the techniques and steps. I have seen Galbert sit down and make a complete tapered spindle from a blank in maybe 5 minuets. If you have watched Curtis's video on making spindles you have seen the huge, long chunks of wood the experienced guys can remove in one stoke with a drawknife.

[David Ragan]

Have watched many of Curtis's videos now. Looks like am going to need a small steamer and kiln. Small is the operative word.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am accumulating parts for a steamer and a kiln myself. Highland Woodworking sells a paper steamer, Peter Galbert bought one or two to make his new steamer with at the class I took. I bought one of the steamers and some other parts. The "paper" steamer comes with instruction for making a steam box with it. I am thinking about a small radiant heater with a thermostat for my kiln. The Kiln Drew Langsner used in the class I took there used a radiant heater and it seemed to work very well. Figuring out where to put these things is part of the issue. I have also been thinking about a small lathe.

[Pat Barry]

Very nice work Dave. How much would you charge to make a second one?