Tormek equivalent wet sharpening for wood turning tools

[David Walser]

Please correct me---I was under the impression that wet sharpening was a standard for sharpening in the days of carbon steel tools. I remember it being so easy to burn the temper off--as in blue. I can't imagine a use for it with the HSS tools used today. ...

This just shows a lack of imagination on your part.

Alan Lacer did a series of articles in AAW's journal that compared the edges produced by dry grinding (with and without honing) with the edge from a Tormek (with and without honing). Bottom line: A tool sharpened on a Tormek is sharper than one off of a dry grinder -- with or without honing. There are two reasons for this: First, the Tormek's stone is 1,000 grit, which produces a finer edge than does a 600 grit hone. Second, and more importantly, the burr produced by dry grinding HSS is very durable. On a skew, it typically folds over on contact with the wood (or a hone), more than doubling the thickness of the edge. It takes a lot of honing to remove the burr!

One last comment on a topic that is not free from controversy: It is true that HSS holds its temper better than high carbon steel. You have to get the HSS much, much hotter before it loses its temper, but it will still lose its temper if you get it hot enough. Can you produce that kind of heat with dry grinding? Most say no. Some say yes. This is the point of controversy. At the very edge, where the metal is at its thinnest, would a heavy hand on the grinder produce enough heat to take the temper out? I think so. At least, that seems to be what was happening when I was first learning to sharpen my bowl gouges on a high speed grinder. I blued the end of the tool and, at the very edge, I got the metal a bright red. (Note: the tool was fine just a 1/16th of an inch away from the edge.) As I learned to use a lighter touch, my bowl gouges stayed sharper longer, so I think I took the temper out of the tool at the very edge. My son, who's Masters thesis analyzed the properties of various high speed steels agrees with my hypothesis. It's possible to draw the temper of HSS with too heavy a hand on the grinder. This isn't an issue with a Tormek.

[David Walser]

Jeff -- The Sorby system is very good. (It uses copies of the Tormek jigs.) Had it been available when I bought my Tormek, I might have gotten the Sorby instead. One difference is that the Sorby produces a flat bevel rather than the hollow ground bevel most of us are used to. In some cases, a flat bevel is preferable. In other cases, its not.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I dunno, This is my 1-1/2" Sorby skew Lacer style. You can do it on a Tormek....

Yes, it took a long time, but it can be done.

sorby 002.jpg

[paul cottingham]

I have gotten (is that even a word?) very good results from the viel grinder used with the trizact belts. Would rather have a wet grinder, but the small viel does a nice job. I do follow up on a 10000 Japanese stone.

[Paul Gilbert]

I dunno, This is my 1-1/2" Sorby skew Lacer style. You can do it on a Tormek....

Yes, it took a long time, but it can be done.

sorby 002.jpg

How do you do it, on the platform on the bottom support, or on top with the skew facing down? If I try it in the normal lower position, it sucks the skew right out of my hand.

[robert baccus]

My low imagination has trouble thinking that very few cuts on a lathe needs a surgical sharp edge. I use 4 different grits (diamond) for different situations but most cutting is done right off the 180 stone. I'd rather be cutting wood than sharpening any day. When a difficult or precise cut is needed a super sharp edge is priceless but even a dull axe will split wood.

[William C Rogers]

I have the Jet clone and the wolverine jig. I have the tormek jigs for the jet, but I have never taken the time to master it fully. I will at some point. For the wolverine I had used the white wheels for a couple of years. I recently bought a CBN wheel and put that on one side. I keep a white wheel on the other side as I do have some home configured non HSS tools and you are only suppose to sharpen HSS tools on a CBN wheel. All will work, but the wolverine/CBN does a very good and fast job. It is my go to system.

[john taliaferro]

I got 5 3/8 gouges from Packard wood works , when all are laying by the Tormek i stop fill the water and sharpen . I also eat a cookie or to shovel chips ,and take puppy for a walk .

[Geoff Whaling]

My low imagination has trouble thinking that very few cuts on a lathe needs a surgical sharp edge. I use 4 different grits (diamond) for different situations but most cutting is done right off the 180 stone. I'd rather be cutting wood than sharpening any day. When a difficult or precise cut is needed a super sharp edge is priceless but even a dull axe will split wood.

Depends upon what you turn. I like to make spin tops and also like fine spindle turning. Very sharp skews, spindle/detail gouge & an original Sorby spindle master are my favourite tools. I can definitely tell when they are loosing their keen edges. Its a bit like chalk & cheese, comparing a very sharp edge to a dull edge on fine spindle work. Dull edges create many issues on fine spindle work. As I said earlier, I use the dry grinder for maintaining bowl gouges when roughing out. Horses for courses.

[Richard Casey]

Klaus,
I have the original Tormek grinder with the upgraded Supergrind wheel and i use it all the time. Yes it is slow to set the initial profile, and I use the aftermarket toolrest on my spark grinder to set the profile, then finish on the wet grinder. It is the best finish for a skew and has the bonus of having the rotating leather strop to hone the edge.
What are the advantages,
1 very quick repeatable touchup of blunt gouges,
2 only removes thousandths of an inch each touchup,
3 no hot sparks near the wood shavings,
4 all the grindings are captured in the water tray, so no microscopic metalic dust particles floating around the shop like the CBN's produce.
Just my deflated Aussie $0.20 worth,
rgds,
Richard.

[Klaus Waldeck]

Wow guys, thanks for all of the info. I should have known that this thread would spark quite a lot of debate. I'm glad that it has been kept friendly. Here are my thoughts.

I think I'm going to go with a new slow-speed bench grinder to start with, and either buy or make a Wolverine jig. I've also seen some videos on semi-freehand sharpening that I may try. Perhaps with a well-trued stone of a finer grit with a good grinder, I may have a chance at learning the freehand technique.

Also, it seems with the Grizzly option, I can get into the Tormek-style wet grinding solution for not an absurd amount of money. Even if the Tormek wheel is far superior, I could buy one of those for the Grizzly and still save a few hundred off of the full Tormek.

Finally, I have been reading this web page which has some very good information about sharpening technique:

http://woodturninglearn.net/articles/sharpen1.htm

[Kyle Iwamoto]

How do you do it, on the platform on the bottom support, or on top with the skew facing down? If I try it in the normal lower position, it sucks the skew right out of my hand.

Platform on the upper mount. I found what really helps is I put a Sharpie line on the rest vertically down the center. Using the line, I have a mark to make that really useful "flat" grind on the tip of the skew. Once I roughed out the shape, it then becomes pretty easy (still very slow) to touch up. I do hone between sharpenings, so I really don't mind taking time to sharpen.

I did have trouble until I used the upper mount. Took me a long time to get it.