Adze for carving a chair seat

[paul cottingham]

Actually, chair devil is probably the wrong term, since those are usually concave, but I was thinking of a housed convex scraper. They are easy to make and would definitely be easier on your hands than a card scraper.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the pullshave. Looks like a reasonable tool, though. For the adze, several people here have recommended the Kestrel and the Tim Manney adzes, so if I were buying, I think I would listen to them.

I'm a little hesitant to mention this, because I know not everyone is into making their own tools, but a travisher can definitely be made. I did a little writeup on mine here.

thanks. Im seriously considering making a travisher. It looks really doable.
thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

[paul cottingham]

Paul- My gutter adze is an almost perfect U shape with slightly wider tips and a curve from cutting edge to poll. It is similar to the LV gutter adze but with a longer distance poll to cutting edge and with a longer handle. Handle length is important since the preferred method of work is with feet about shoulder width apart and on each edge of the seat blank holding it in place. You swing between your legs and too short a handle will cause a nightmare of a sore back.
I've never used the LV pull shave so I really can't offer you any advice positive or negative. I've no doubt though that it is of the normal commendable LV quality.

Dave, does your gutter adze have as much cuvature as the LV offering? Its a very pronounced "U" which makes sense. Also, is your sharpened on the inside of the blade, or the outside?
thanks for your time,

[paul cottingham]

Regarding the sculptor's adze show in the original post, I would not recommend it unless you are willing to make a number of modifications and accommodations. I got one as a gift since I was starting out making carved bowls and it was thought I could use this to make faster rough work. Right out of the box, this adze, made by Stubai, was not very good quality nor was it well designed. About the only thing good I could say is that it wasn't very expensive compared to other ones available.

For those interested in what the problems were: The handle is narrow and far too long considering the strike radius of the curved blade, limiting the angles you can cut. The head is light, so you have to swing it hard to get a decent amount of wood cut (especially end grain). The mortise for the handle (in the head) is pretty small, so they added a hollow pin to hold the head on instead of a wedge. It lasted one 30-minute chopping session on a poplar bowl. The curved side of the blade is, as mentioned, beveled only on the inside, making it want to dig into the "scoop" cut. The flat axe-head side was pretty dull and since the head is so light, you can't generate much of a cut with it. Its dullness was a good thing when the head broke off the handle and bounced back at me. The radius of the curve across the edge of the blade was way off - one corner was bent down at a much more acute curve than the other and the blade was ground straight across (instead of being cambered) so it had thin, weak corners that dug in and twisted the head during the cut. Oh, and the silly blue paint rubs off on the wood you're cutting.

So, in order to make it a useable tool, I made a thicker, shorter handle - about 2/3 the original length. Then I ground a flare in the top of the mortise of the head so I could use wedges to hold the handle on. The curved side of the blade was reground with a double bevel and given a camber and rounded corners. The straight blade got a shallower bevel and a slight camber as well, and I sanded back some of the blue paint. As it is, it works better, but still only "OK" - I do most bowl roughing with timber framing gouges (like 2-inch wide ones) until I can find a nice heavy antique bowl or cooper's adze. I use this adze for intermediate shaping after the gouge work to "blend" the gouge cuts before final shaping with scorps and knives.

Karl

Thank you for the detailed answer, Karl. I think the Stubai is out now! Any opinion on the gutter adze LV carries?
Would you think a number 3 1" gouge might work as well, albeit perhaps more slowly?
thanks for your time, i really appreciate it.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Paul- My adze is has the bevel on the inside. I'll take a couple of pix tonight when I get home. Unfortunately the maker, Ray Larsen, of Genuine Forgery passed away a few years ago and his tools are no longer available.

[paul cottingham]

Thanks, Dave.

[Dave Anderson NH]

These 2 pictures are of the Ray Larsen Genuine Forgery gutter adze I bought from that crusty old Swamp Yankee over 20 years ago. He was a fantastic guy and also did custom tools to order. Ray also wrote a smithing book which by now is probably out of print.

[Dave Anderson NH]

This is the standard scorp that Ray Larsen sold. Also bought 20+ years ago.

[paul cottingham]

One further question. How about this combination: #3 and #4 gouges for roughing out, combined with a Veritas pullshave for finishing up? And sanding and scraping, of course. I might add a auriou chairmakers rasp.
Thanks again.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Paul- These are the drawknives I own and use. From the top descending they are:

James Swan & Co. 10"
Genuine Forgery by Ray Larsen
C. J. Kimball & Son
Unknown maker

I inherited all but the Genuine Forgery. All work well though the Swan is perhaps my favorite.

[paul cottingham]

These 2 pictures are of the Ray Larsen Genuine Forgery gutter adze I bought from that crusty old Swamp Yankee over 20 years ago. He was a fantastic guy and also did custom tools to order. Ray also wrote a smithing book which by now is probably out of print.

That is a mighty nice looking adze, my friend.

[paul cottingham]

This is the standard scorp that Ray Larsen sold. Also bought 20+ years ago.

Nice. Now i think i am going to have to own a scorp.

[paul cottingham]

Paul- These are the drawknives I own and use. From the top descending they are:

James Swan & Co. 10"
Genuine Forgery by Ray Larsen
C. J. Kimball & Son
Unknown maker

I inherited all but the Genuine Forgery. All work well though the Swan is perhaps my favorite.

Nice. How many (and which ones) do you use regularly?

[Karl Andersson]

Hi Paul, looks like you're moving away from chisels, but if you do use them for shaping, in my opinion, a number 3 would be too shallow a radius for roughing - I use the flatter ones for smoothing. For roughing and shaping, I use a no. 7 bent gouge 1" plus some 2" straight gouges; numbers 7 and 9. I'd think for a chair seat, you'd want to go wider than 1" - it helps blend your gouge cuts prior to smoothing with a finer chisel or scorp. The more curved radii really help hog waste out for bowls - they concentrate the mallet strikes on a narrow area of wood fibers and cut/ pop them out in a controlled "scoop". Not sure that you'd need that much waste removal with chair seats - looks like plenty of guys have experience to share for chairs specifically.
Karl

[Dave Anderson NH]

Paul- I probably use the Ray Larsen the most with the James Swan coming in a near second. The one I use the least is the smallest. All of my drawknives are sharpened with a bit of a back bevel. It is to some folks controversial, but I find that it allows me to enter and leave a cut very easily. I can literally make a scooping cut shaped like the top view of a canoe. If properly sharpened, a drawknife can make a cut with a finish as smooth as smoothing plane.

[paul cottingham]

Hi Paul, looks like you're moving away from chisels, but if you do use them for shaping, in my opinion, a number 3 would be too shallow a radius for roughing - I use the flatter ones for smoothing. For roughing and shaping, I use a no. 7 bent gouge 1" plus some 2" straight gouges; numbers 7 and 9. I'd think for a chair seat, you'd want to go wider than 1" - it helps blend your gouge cuts prior to smoothing with a finer chisel or scorp. The more curved radii really help hog waste out for bowls - they concentrate the mallet strikes on a narrow area of wood fibers and cut/ pop them out in a controlled "scoop". Not sure that you'd need that much waste removal with chair seats - looks like plenty of guys have experience to share for chairs specifically.
Karl

Karl, im actually moving towards gouges, i like tools that can multitask. A no.7 bent and a number 7 and no. 9 straight? I will play with the borrowed 7 i have today. Thanks!