Steel in Wood River cutters

[Charles Bjorgen]

I picked up a new Wood River no. 3 smoother a few weeks ago and am generally pretty satisfied with it. It is the V3 model. Fred Skelly did a review of this plane and the thread seemed to go on for about a year and a half here. I generally agree with his thoughts. Here's the link to that discussion:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...od+River+plane

There's some confusion about the steel in the cutter of this plane though. I emailed the seller, Woodcraft, and they answered my question this way: "The included blades are just high carbon steel. They are not designated as either A2 or O1" and that's what their catalog listings say. Yet, Rob Cosman, a seller of the Wood River planes, on his website says they are A2 steel. Some older threads on this subject here on SMC made reference to Mn65 steel. Just curious if there has been any new info on this.

[Allen Jordan]

I have also heard that they are not A2, just some chinese high-carbon steel that's kind of similar. I've found mine holds an edge about the same as other A2 blades, maybe slightly worse.

[Steve Kang]

I've been really impressed with the V3 steel. Not sure what it is, some say it's MN65, but it holds an edge really well.

[Frederick Skelly]

Hmmm, Cosman's site DOES say they're A-2. I hadn't been to that part of it before. Charles, you have the email from Woodcraft, right? It would be interesting to forward it to Cosman and politely ask what's up. He was involved in helping the manufacturer get the V3's "right". Perhaps he has insight from the manufacturer. Or perhaps his website editor shortened the sentence from "the blade is similar to A-2 steel" down to "the blade is A-2 steel". Or something else.

Regardless, I'd just ask him. I swapped some email with him last year and he seemed pretty approachable. If you ask politely, he might be willing to explain. Heck, you might be doing the man a favor if his site has a known error he hasn't caught yet.

If you contact him, please let us know what you learn.
Fred

[Kees Heiden]

Workshop heaven from the UK sells them under the Quangsheng brand. They say the steel is T10 which is a water hardening steel much like W1. Not like A2 at all. But no guarantee that it is exactly the same plane of course.

[Daniel Rode]

Rob Cosman typically uses 3rd party irons from a Toronto company called IBC. Perhaps he is referring to A2 replacement irons?

I have a Wood River #4. The iron sharpens up easily and seem to hold an edge well for me but I never investigated exactly what steel they used.

[Matthew N. Masail]

The T10 blades in some models made by that factory are more like O1 steel, I have a couple of them. The woodriver steel works very well for me too and it is more similar to A. whether that's what it is or not I don't know, by it dosent chip at 30 like some A2 can

[Charles Bjorgen]

Again I am more curious rather that dissatisfied with the cutter. I've probably made more than 200 planing strokes with this plane and have experienced no chipping. The bevel from the factory is 25 degrees and that's where it has stayed. I think Dan Rode answered my question about the Rob Cosman site in that he might be selling the planes with third party cutters.

I bought the plane via Amazon but the supplier was Woodcraft. Considering that vintage Stanley no. 3's are selling on eBay for anywhere from $50 to occasionally $100 and 603 Bedrocks averaging at least $125, I think the Wood River prices are pretty good for a new plane. So I'm satisfied.

[bill tindall]

It is a trivial task to find out if you can find the right equipment. Many places selling steel, recycling or even using steel will have hand held X-ray fluorescence capability. It may in turn be an easy task to ask them for an analysis. In about 60 seconds you can get an analysis of this or any other steel and from the analysis readily determine the steel's identifying name. The unique composition of A2 makes it easily identifiable. Ditto for O-1 or any of the other steel used for tools and knives.

If you know a chemist going to a trade show there are usually several vendors of this equipment anxious to show it off by analyzing your chisel of plane blade.

[Charles Bjorgen]

I did send an email to Rob Cosman about this question. I suspect he is pretty busy so I'm frankly not expecting an immediate answer, especially since I'm not a customer of his. I have watched his videos about preparing the Wood River planes and found them pretty good.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Charles. Look forward to hearing the result!
Fred

[Marinus Loewensteijn]

I picked up a new Wood River no. 3 smoother a few weeks ago and am generally pretty satisfied with it. It is the V3 model. Fred Skelly did a review of this plane and the thread seemed to go on for about a year and a half here. I generally agree with his thoughts. Here's the link to that discussion:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...od+River+plane

There's some confusion about the steel in the cutter of this plane though. I emailed the seller, Woodcraft, and they answered my question this way: "The included blades are just high carbon steel. They are not designated as either A2 or O1" and that's what their catalog listings say. Yet, Rob Cosman, a seller of the Wood River planes, on his website says they are A2 steel. Some older threads on this subject here on SMC made reference to Mn65 steel. Just curious if there has been any new info on this.

5 years ago I bought the Luban bevel up Jack and was pretty happy with it. Recently I needed a better #3 than the Stanley I had so I looked at a Clifton that had been sitting in a local shop for over 5 years (the old model with the green paint). I did not walk out with it because I did not like the bronze lever. (found some references on the web of rapid wear and occasionally breaking - if I spend that kind of money it has to be close to perfect). I did not go for Lie Nielsen as I did not want bronze plus buying in New Zealand means importing and that incurs a hefty penalty.

Ended up ordering a WoodRiver #3. It is heavier than my Stanley #5-1/4 at 4lbs 4oz. The chipbreaker had the bevel in a rough state: I thought the milling had not been ground flat. But it looks like the chipbreaker had the bevel stamped since where it meets the blade there is deformity where the two meet. I partially flattened this rough area and gave it a 50 degree bevel to help with preventing tear out. Worse is the side adjust lever: it goes unbearably heavy! It is riveted to the frog but there is a layer of paint between the lever and the frog. I've been told that it 'should' free up over time and do not try to remove the pin as you run a high risk of cracking the frog. I did try to dissolve the paint but that did not work so it appears to be some two component paint. Not mentioning the edges that have been left sharp on the brass nuts, the steel and the top of the tote.

It might be that the Chinese are up to their old tricks again. Personal experience is that initially you get quality goods from them and then after a while the quality deteriorates as they cut corners.

I would have gone Veritas or Lie Nielsen if they had a steel version of the Bedrock #3. Am not recommending the WR because of the frustration with the lever and I would rather have made the compromise of the higher Lie Nielsen price with bronze #3 or the small Veritas bevel up smoother.