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Thread: I may be going on a lawsuit spree...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Crane Davies View Post
    Harold, the merchant made right on their mistake by refunding the partial payment. It's not their problem how much money you have in your account.

    The bank did no wrong by charging you the overdraft and consecutive overdraft fees for other purchases you made. You agreed to their terms and conditions when you opened the account, hence all the fees you were given.

    I had this same situation about 10 years ago, the merchant charged me twice, didn't realize it until I saw the multiple overdraft fees ($35 a piece). I called the bank to tell them of my situation, mad minded but spoke nicely. If I recall correctly they waved all the fees. They give customers one chance, a free pass from these charges (at least my bank did). After that I was told I couldn't get the fees waved and make sure of my finances. I would call calm and collectively and see how things go.

    I thought I was wronged by both sides too, mad for a moment until I looked at the whole situation and realized I was only to blame. As you are too, with all due respect.

    I hope your wife looks and feels lovely in her new dress (that's what really matters!)

    The best to you both, Shawn.
    I have read all of the responses...thank you all, by the way...but (with all due respect) this one absolutely baffles me. For the life of me, I cannot see how I am to blame.
    I am never wrong.

    Well...I thought I was wrong once...but I was mistaken.

  2. #32
    Harold, this simply would not - could not - have happened had you spent that $129.99 on something from LN or LV. They wouldn't have overcharged you, and if somehow they DID, they'd have done something nice to make it up to you. So, THAT's where you screwed up man.

    But hey, seriously. I hope you find a way to recover those fees. This is a real bummer and I can't see how you caused it either. Also, you might ask your bank if they offer overdraft protection. Maybe that would help in a future situation.

    Hang in there man.
    Fred

  3. #33
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    For those saying the dress company should pay all overcharge fees...

    Let's take it to the absurd. What if Harold purchased 10,000 separate items, each with a $0.01 check, and the dress company's mistake forced all of those checks to bounce. The individual purchases only totaled $100, but at $35/check, the bounce fees add up to $350k. Does anyone here honestly think the dress company will pay $350k out of their pocket because of a mistaken $165 overcharge? Didn't think so.

    While the situation is unfortunate, it could have been mitigated by multiple methods... more money in the account, using accounts with overdraft protection, etc. The best bet is to talk to the bank and see if they will reduce (or eliminate) the fees as a courtesy and walk away from this as a learning lesson. The dress company made a mistake that was repairable. The bank was merely doing their job under terms Harold agreed to. Harold got screwed in the deal.

    Not every situation has to have blame assigned to it.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Beam View Post
    You shopped online with a debit card and now want free protection against unauthorized charges? That's what credit cards are for.

    Good luck!
    +1. Keep a low limit/prepaid credit card and pay it off in full each billing cycle. There are consumer protections and limited or no liability with a credit card. AFAIK with a debit card there are less (or no) protections.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    How exactly would the bank know that any of the transactions were not exactly as the customer intended? And sure, the dress merchant is responsible to make their end of things right, but thats the end of it. They can't possibly be on the hook for the overdraft fees.
    They don't...and that's exactly my point. My bank...credit union...does not charge for a mistake...or theft...if there aren't enough funds to cover the transaction. They simply reject the transaction. Giving the "customer" the ability to buy...or someone to steal...money that isn't there and then charging a fee is a huge business. I personally think it is a ripoff. Checks are a different story because it takes time to process. A card transaction is immediate...and can be rejected immediately. There is no excuse to let it happen...then charge you high fees.
    Glenn Clabo
    Michigan

  6. #36
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    I have two separate financial institutions and for each one I have a checking / debit and savings account.. The savings account is linked to the checking account so in the event of an overdraft from checking, regardless of whether it is a check or a debit transaction, the bank / credit union will cover the overdraft (assuming there is enough $ in the linked savings account). Thats the good news. The bad news is that at the bank, each transaction like that costs me $12.50. At the credit union it costs only $3.50. If I overdraw my account at either place, they limit the potential damage (to them) by allowing only 4 such overdrafts in a 24 hour period. A NSF (non sufficient fund) charge of $35 is charged by the bank - this sounds just like Harold's situation. My bank is WF, my credit union is a small, regional operation that was part of my former employers company.

    The entire point of having overdraft protection on your account is to limit the damage to you, as the consumer, for an honest mistake you made on your part. NSF charges are outrageous of course in comparison so thats why you get the overdraft protection. With out the overdraft protection you will pay huge fees

    Now, for those of you that think their bank doesn't charge for a mistake, I suggest you really read the fine print in the fee schedule because I doubt that this is the case for any bank these days.

    So, are you totally sure that your friendly bank doesn't operate just like my bank and credit union?

  7. #37
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    I appreciate the responses...and I have had a good time reading them.

    to be sure, much of my original post was tongue-in-cheek. I mean...it really did happen (and still has not been resolved)...and, yes, I was originally upset (livid, to be exact)...the situation is not that big a deal.

    Here is my perspective...(in case anybody cares)...

    Yeah...it happens. Stuff like this. It's really not that bid of a deal. Should the "dress company" have to pay the fees? Normally, I would say no. In fact, since I live in a small town (and actually pastor a church here) I know the folks at our bank. I would not sue them...nor do I think I would have a case against them. I have been told that they will "most likely" waive the fees.

    Cool.

    However...if they don't...I have every right (and intention)...to walk away from them.

    As far as the "dress company" is concerned...I called them the moment I noticed the problem (Sat. eve). I was told that they would refund the overcharge. I was also told that a supervisor would call me on Monday. I instead tried to call them and was told...all day...that there were none available (though one salesperson admittedly spoke to a supervisor while I was on the phone). Anyway...bottomline...as of right now, they still have done nothing.

    Here is what I have asked for from them...as per the bank's request...a refund. The company said they would. And, the bank also requested a letter faxed to them stating that this was their error (so as to prove that I am not making this up).

    The "dress company" said they would. As of yet, they have not.
    I am never wrong.

    Well...I thought I was wrong once...but I was mistaken.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I have two separate financial institutions and for each one I have a checking / debit and savings account.. The savings account is linked to the checking account so in the event of an overdraft from checking, regardless of whether it is a check or a debit transaction, the bank / credit union will cover the overdraft (assuming there is enough $ in the linked savings account). Thats the good news. The bad news is that at the bank, each transaction like that costs me $12.50. At the credit union it costs only $3.50. If I overdraw my account at either place, they limit the potential damage (to them) by allowing only 4 such overdrafts in a 24 hour period. A NSF (non sufficient fund) charge of $35 is charged by the bank - this sounds just like Harold's situation. My bank is WF, my credit union is a small, regional operation that was part of my former employers company.

    The entire point of having overdraft protection on your account is to limit the damage to you, as the consumer, for an honest mistake you made on your part. NSF charges are outrageous of course in comparison so thats why you get the overdraft protection. With out the overdraft protection you will pay huge fees

    Now, for those of you that think their bank doesn't charge for a mistake, I suggest you really read the fine print in the fee schedule because I doubt that this is the case for any bank these days.

    So, are you totally sure that your friendly bank doesn't operate just like my bank and credit union?
    Positive. I have dropped all my "bank" accounts because of their unfriendly customer service. I have an overdraft protected checking account, check card and debit card. There is a very limited amount to keep me from making a dumb mistake. I think I've written 5 checks in the last year...because I'm very comfortable with online banking. I've never had an online issue...only hand to hand. If something happens that I exceed the limited overdraft amount they reject the transaction. I also have a daily limit on any transaction...that I can override if need be. I also have it set up that I inform them if I am about to go outside a specific mile limit of my normal life. I also have a credit card that I use for less familiar internet transactions through the same credit union. It's not linked to my check/savings account...it has a daily limit...and if it is exceeded in anyway it is rejected immediately...no charges. I did this recently when we moved...the hotel transaction was rejected because I didn't realize they added a large amount to the initial check in. I got a text within minutes telling me to call them.

    I know this because I've had it happen 3 other times where someone...and it's easy to find who or where when it's set up like this...stole my card info and these things kicked in...I got a text to call the credit union...and it was fixed in minutes. No cost...only had to fill out a fraud report.
    Last edited by Glenn Clabo; 07-29-2015 at 9:11 AM.
    Glenn Clabo
    Michigan

  9. #39
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    My credit union will automatically transfer money from my savings to my checking account if there is an overdraft. I tend to keep a pretty large cushion in my checking. I put every expense I can on my credit card, but I make sure I have enough in my checking account to cover the charges. I usually have 30 days to pay off the credit card charges so I have a fair amount of money sitting in my account most of the time. When I make my monthly credit card payment I already have money sitting in my checking to pay the next credit card payment..

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    My credit union will automatically transfer money from my savings to my checking account if there is an overdraft. I tend to keep a pretty large cushion in my checking. I put every expense I can on my credit card, but I make sure I have enough in my checking account to cover the charges. I usually have 30 days to pay off the credit card charges so I have a fair amount of money sitting in my account most of the time. When I make my monthly credit card payment I already have money sitting in my checking to pay the next credit card payment..
    Do you know what they charge you for the overdraft transfer?

  11. #41
    There is a certain percentage of the population that will routinely write bad checks. I think the overdraft fees are designed to catch these people.

    Because this is what happens: They write (let's say) ten bad checks, and have $450 in fees. They don't have the money to cover the fees (they're deadbeats). But now the bank blacklists them with ChexSystems (or similar).

    So when the scammer moves onto the next bank and tries to open an account, that bank makes an inquiry and ChexSystems indicates they owe $450 to the previous bank, and the new bank won't allow them to open a new account.

    And some people just never balance their checkbook and don't even know their balance. Nothing teaches religious checkbook balancing like getting dinged for $45 a few times.

    My experience is that banks aren't evil, and don't want to ensnare people with a reasonable explanation. If you talk to them rationally, and demonstrate an explanation, they will likely waive the fees.

  12. #42
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    Pretty sure our bank will set up your account to not allow overdrafts or fund them but ding you $45 (or whatever it is.) You can add overdraft protection which is a line of credit to prevent the fee. If you don't allow overdrafts you will likely get hit by fees from the merchant if you write a check and it doesn't go through.

    I think there are some restrictions on funding overdrafts from "savings" depending on what type of account the "savings" account really is. It seems like there are regulations that prevent it if its really a money market account.


  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    There is a certain percentage of the population that will routinely write bad checks. I think the overdraft fees are designed to catch these people.

    Because this is what happens: They write (let's say) ten bad checks, and have $450 in fees. They don't have the money to cover the fees (they're deadbeats). But now the bank blacklists them with ChexSystems (or similar).

    So when the scammer moves onto the next bank and tries to open an account, that bank makes an inquiry and ChexSystems indicates they owe $450 to the previous bank, and the new bank won't allow them to open a new account.

    And some people just never balance their checkbook and don't even know their balance. Nothing teaches religious checkbook balancing like getting dinged for $45 a few times.

    My experience is that banks aren't evil, and don't want to ensnare people with a reasonable explanation. If you talk to them rationally, and demonstrate an explanation, they will likely waive the fees.

    A 2007 study by the Center for Responsible Lending said consumers are paying fees of $17.5 billion annually -- on automatic overdraft loans of $15.8 billion per year.


    Read more: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/inve...#ixzz3hIVAEjXd
    Glenn Clabo
    Michigan

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Clabo View Post

    A 2007 study by the Center for Responsible Lending said consumers are paying fees of $17.5 billion annually -- on automatic overdraft loans of $15.8 billion per year.


    Read more: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/inve...#ixzz3hIVAEjXd
    Well by some estimates there are as many as 400M retail accounts in the United States. Not sure how many of those are checking accounts, maybe half? So maybe $100 per account?

    More likely it is $400 to $500 on some accounts that are habitual abusers, and nearly zero on the majority.

    You're talking to a guy that has had to go after people for tens of thousands of dollars of bad paper. My record was over $15k in a single year. But I saw an enormous reduction when banks started ratcheting-up their fees.

  15. #45
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    only had an overdraft once and it was the banks fault as I had deposited a check for over $10,000 and they made a mistake in entering my account number. They handled everything to get it straightened out. It was a small bank that we used for years.

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