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Thread: Thoughts on the Patriots .......

  1. #61
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    The ideal gas law has not been disproven, or are you referring to the Bill Nye the Science guy video? There were two needles used, yeah that's scientific, and went with the results the referee best remembered using. The other set of results are within the ideal gas law. I have no idea if that's what happened, but being overlooked isn't the same as being disproven. You can find as many "scientific" reports proving it as disproving it. Even Harvard and MIt students did one but that's beyond me. But I do know that when it gets cold here my tire pressure light goes on and I have to add air. Not scientific for sure but as a regular guy that makes sense to me. It never happens in the summer. That's my simpleton view of it.

    I do agree that Brady is such a competitor that he does anything he can to get an edge. I'm just not sure how a pound of pressure, in home games only, does anything. That was 100% disproven in the second half of the Colts game and the Super Bowl.

    At the end of the day the NFL wins and we were duped. Not sure by which side but duped none the less. That's what makes sports fun to watch, you need somebody to root for, or against. It wouldn't be much fun if you didn't care who won, not for me anyhow.

    I like the the comparison that Brady will get an asterisk for this just like all the players mentioned that were caught repeatedly using steroids. When the NFL first made that leap I thought it was a stupid argument, as did the judge. But that is what makes the world interesting, different ways to think about the exact same thing.

    It's OK to have success and be good at something, just don't be too good. I don't think anyone would care if RG3 had a ball boy take a pound of pressure out of the ball, gotta feel bad for him at this point.

  2. #62
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    I get the feeling that Berman's ruling was technically correct and morally wrong. I don't have the source at hand but I'm pretty sure the Patriots have quite a bit lower fumble rate at home in the cold months than visiting teams. Is this due to coaching or softer balls that are easier to get a grip on? An argument of the pro-Patriot crowd is that given the result of the N.E. - Colts game were tampered balls the deciding factor? Clearly not. But remember the game before that, N.E. vs. Ravens? Could tampered balls have been the winning edge there? I'm pretty confident that the 2015 N.E. - Colts game is not the first time 'the deflator' did his thing.

  3. #63
    Your pretty sure? Do you have information that would lead you to making a statement like that. I think if it had happened before it it would have been noticed just like this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Harms View Post
    I get the feeling that Berman's ruling was technically correct and morally wrong. I don't have the source at hand but I'm pretty sure the Patriots have quite a bit lower fumble rate at home in the cold months than visiting teams. Is this due to coaching or softer balls that are easier to get a grip on? An argument of the pro-Patriot crowd is that given the result of the N.E. - Colts game were tampered balls the deciding factor? Clearly not. But remember the game before that, N.E. vs. Ravens? Could tampered balls have been the winning edge there? I'm pretty confident that the 2015 N.E. - Colts game is not the first time 'the deflator' did his thing.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert Kemp View Post
    Your pretty sure? Do you have information that would lead you to making a statement like that. I think if it had happened before it it would have been noticed just like this time.
    You tell em' Bert. I think I heard somewhere, maybe, that probably the Patriots may score more at home then on the road, Tom is guilty. Every team but the Saints (sorry to Saints fans) did better at home last year. There is a big home field advantage in the NFL. Patriots fans won't be swayed, and Patriots fans won't be able to sway others. If you think he did it, your mind was made up a long time ago when the media gave you your opinion many months past.

    Even the ESPN commentators are to the point saying, well obviously "something" happened and they should be punished. At the end of the day there is probably nobody on this forum that's lives will be better or worse for that matter because of this. It's not real life for any of us, but I find it entertaining to talk about.

    Not bashing you Curt, I respect everyone's opinion and I don't take this seriously, but that is a common leap. Well, I know Brady lit up the field in the second half of the Colts game, and put together the greatest 4th quarter performance in a Super Bowl against one of the best (if not the best) secondary to every play. Ok that goes against my argument so it must be for fumbling. That's it, they fumble less at home I think, so that makes sense why they did. I knew we would find it so I can rationalize rooting for his failure in my own head. What about coaching? What about team operation? If you fumble on the Patriots you sit, period. Steven Ridley was their best running back by far two years ago when they needed him most. The offense was hurting, Gronk was out, but he fumbled. Two times, although one didn't count because of a flag. The third time, guess what, he sat, and the next game he sat. He never really was welcomed back into the fold and they looked to replace him. Was Ridley a Fumbler? No, he was AVERAGE at the time in the league, not good enough for the Patriots standards. Now he plays for the NY Jets. I wished they kept him, I liked his personality and charity work, too many mistakes. Maybe he wasn't being fed the deflated balls? Yeah, that could be it.

    Steroids are banned, no ambiguity there, is it cheating? I guess you could make that argument and maybe I agree.

    I only allow you to have an opinion on this if you read the Wells report, the piece done on what was omitted in the report and how it was steered to suit the end result, and the Judges decision. If still you think he cheated I can respect that. I know, I know, why would the NFL even WANT to punish somebody like Brady, why would they want these results? If you paid attention to the last two seasons, who is getting punished and all over the news, seemingly weekly, for doing crazy things? Some of them on video? Of course they want to hammer somebody like Brady. Look world we are fair, we even punished Brady hard, it's nothing personal.

    Again, this is one of those things minds were made up seven months ago, they are not going to change.

    When it comes to football, minds go simple, mine especially. I don't even care at this point what really happened.

    A great point was brought up on ESPN this morning I had not thought of. Maybe this whole thing, or at least how far it was pushed, was the NFLs first attempt at contract negotiations to put more money in owners pockets. The next contract focus won't be on money like always, it will be on negotiating away the extreme power the commissioner has. Smart, they realized they have it, was never an issue, now a federal judge says you can't do anything you feel like regardless. NFL will be happy to change it because they are sick of losing, and the players don't want it. No problem, we will get rid of it but it will cost you. Win for owners.

    Watch the "Brady 6", it's on YouTube. A sixth round, 199th pick in the draft, was never expected to be anything. Look at him now, an American underdog success story, through extreme hard work, God given talents, and a competitive drive second to none. If you want to put an "asterisk" next to his name because a firm, once hired by the tobacco industry to release a report that smoking wasn't harmful, concluded that he "more probably then not" had knowledge that somebody else may have deflated (we are talking from 1/10 pd to a pound or about 8%) footballs, in the same game that an NFL official stole a ball to sell and replaced it with a grossly under inflated ball, go ahead.

    Again, I respect everyone's opinion, although I will be dismissive of it in this particular case because not many have followed it like we have in NE, and I certainly don't blame you. This isn't important, it's just entertainment.

    Very few sports figures are "heroes". Many do charity work and that's great. Not true "heroes" though, they are athletes. Maybe JJ Watt comes to mind, he's close. Check out what he has done away from the media, quietly, quite remarkable.

    Although if JJ Watt was more probable then not aware that the equipment manager gave him illegally light cleats, and they were set to play the Patriots, I would have to root for a one game suspension. Man he puts a hurting on those QB's.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert Kemp View Post
    Your pretty sure? Do you have information that would lead you to making a statement like that. I think if it had happened before it it would have been noticed just like this time.

    Maybe that was the first time the Pats organization ever tampered with their footballs. Maybe I'll have an illicit fling with Mrs. Brady. Both are possible, neither seem likely. JMO of course.

  6. #66
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    I wish the whole thing would end. I'm a Colts fan, however the Pars would have won that game with grease on the football. I don't think it will happen ever again, so forward we should go. To me Brady has received enough "punishment" just for the probability he knew about it. New season, new beginning. As a Colts fan, the Pats are the evil foe, but I respect them and Brady to the Pats is like Manning and now Luck to the Colts. Should be an even playing field until the next incident.
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  7. #67
    The thing I've not seen discussed here is the way the deflation was discovered. A defensive player picked the ball up after a play and told an official that it was soft.

    Now, Tom Brady has handled the football a lot and he is an excellent QB. I'm convinced that he knew the ball was soft. That beyond a reasonable doubt. Was he complicit in setting that pressure, I find it hard to believe he didn't.

    Remember, it felt soft to the other play, so it felt soft to Tom. He didn't object, so IMO, is part of the infraction.

    Was it worth 4 games. No. Did it effect the outcome of that one game. No. Was it the first time. Not likely at all.

    If I were commissioner I would have fined the organization a moderate amount and Tom a small amount, issued a warning to all teams and then went to dinner with Kraft to explain.

  8. #68
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    The judge did not rule on the merits of the case. Rather, he admonished the NFL for not properly notifying the players of the policy.
    This ruling has nothing to do with the Pats innocence or guilt.
    If one seeks justice, the US legal system, like most, is generally I'll equipped to produce it.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Combs View Post
    The thing I've not seen discussed here is the way the deflation was discovered. A defensive player picked the ball up after a play and told an official that it was soft.

    Now, Tom Brady has handled the football a lot and he is an excellent QB. I'm convinced that he knew the ball was soft. That beyond a reasonable doubt. Was he complicit in setting that pressure, I find it hard to believe he didn't.

    Remember, it felt soft to the other play, so it felt soft to Tom. He didn't object, so IMO, is part of the infraction.

    Ken, there is ZERO truth to that, zero. But again I am not going to change your mind, and that's fine, what's the difference. It's only football. I'm entertained by the thought processes, on both sides that go into it.

    That was the original report (many were false) seven months ago. The player, D'Qwell Jackson, came out shortly after and said there was ZERO truth to that report. Yes he did intercept Brady, that is true. He kept the ball as a souvenir. Look it up if it interests you but that is a good example of people grabbing what their told to think and holding onto despite it being found not to be true, from the player himself. In Jackson's own words he said the ball felt fine, he wouldn't be able to detect a pound of pressure anyhow, and he doesn't even see how it would be an advantage. He gave it to the equipment manager to secure for him as a souvenir. They analysed it on their own. Google it, well documented, and publicly reported.

    And even if that was true, because if you held onto it this long I doubt this will change anything, does that makes sense? Look up the average time Brady has the ball on a pass play, under 3 seconds, way less on a run play. That's under 3 seconds, a portion of that is adjusting grip, while 300 pounders are trying to level you. The referee, who's sole purpose is enforcing the rules, stands on the sideline holding the ball that is next to go into play for several minutes in his hands. If it was that easy wouldn't they pick it up if it was detectable? I know on Sportcenter they tried it and picked the deflated ball every time. Fine, but they had two to compare side by side. I'm sure I could take a 2 pound weight and a 2.5 pd weight in both hands like they did and tell the difference. I doubt if you can hand me one alone and I could tell. Never mind doing it under stress when your not even looking for it.

    And Greg you are absolutely right the judge only ruled on the fairness of it, no doubt found unfair. At the end of the day do we want our federal judges spending time on why there is a pound of pressure missing from some footballs? Move on agreed.

    People don't think rationally when it comes to your favorite sports team, myself included. I'm just fascinated by what people are told to believe by the media, and then feel comfortable enough to post it on a public forum.

    - It was disproven that temperature could account for the pressure. Not true. There were two readings taken from two gauges. One fell within the ideal gas law one didn't. The wells report used the one that suited their argument. I'm not smart enough to know for sure what the Ideal Gas Law is but there are as many scientific reports that say it can as can't happen. You cold weather Creekers probably have had the tire pressure light warning come on during cold mornings. Doesn't exonerate anything but that at least a makes sense to me.

    -Patriots fumble fewest in league at home, must be the deflated balls. Not true. I'm sure somebody will google it and find out they are below average. There is a difference between fumbles, and fumbles that result in a turnover. Once that ball is fumbled it's anyone's game who recovers it. The Patriots are very good at recovering fumbles, maybe they practice it more? If the deflated ball hits the turf wouldn't it be the same advantage to both teams? Then why are they better at it? That's why those stats are skewed. If interested look up raw fumbles, they are average. Most stats are from turnovers. If Blount fumbles it but gets it back, it's not counted in stats as a turnover, but he still fumbled it.

    -D'Qwell Jackson immediately recognized the deflated ball, how could Brady not know, guilty. Not even open to debate, absolutely no truth, but hey whatever, I think I heard somebody on TV say it when I was at my brother in laws house, and the janitor at my kids school said it was true. Guilty.

    Do I think there is no way Brady could possibly do anything wrong, no. Is he a good honest person? How the hell would I know, I don't know him, I just know he's good at football. Would it surprise me if he came out tomorrow and said enough is enough, I ordered the code red, I did it? Not at all.

    We follow this more then most being in New England and being Patriots fans. I am most fascinated by how people react to it and go down whatever road suits their argument, wether it is the truth or not. I wonder what other aspects of life this parallels, like politics for instance, or is it just irrational sports fan thinking? I hope it's the latter.

    The Colts fans on here have many good seasons to look forward to, Luck is the real deal for sure. They get the right players he could end up being the best ever. I also see Green Bay on here, poor Jordy Nelson, I hate seeing players get hurt, especially one with his character. Even teams I don't like I hate to see injuries. GB should have been in the last Super Bowl, definitely going to be in the hunt this year. With Nelson, would have been my odds on favorite.

  10. #70
    If you're a diehard patriot fan you're not going to see the forest for the trees everybody else see a little smoke there must be a fire most people don't really care that's the problem with professional sports it's win at all costs.
    Thanks John
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by John A langley View Post
    If you're a diehard patriot fan you're not going to see the forest for the trees everybody else see a little smoke there must be a fire most people don't really care that's the problem with professional sports it's win at all costs.
    Agreed sports fans are irrational. I'm just not comfortable being told what to think. I see a little smoke as well, no doubt. But where did it come from? I'm not a Giants fan (for obvious reason, sigh) but I wouldn't be beating the drums against them based on the exact set of circumstance. Some people are just cool with having little to no argument, but think something happened, so punish punish punish. I doubt in everyone's private and professional lives they would see "a little smoke" and pick somebody to punish and be fine with it. Most, I hope, would put a little more effort into thinking about it. In this case it's not worth it, it's just football. Most people shouldn't care and I don't. The topic is just interesting and I happen to follow of it. It's pro sports, not kids, not high school, it's big business. Of course they are going to try to win however they can get away with. If your disappointed at guys who use steroids, etc your thinking like a child it's big business. It's all risk reward. If your comfortable with it, we all make our own choices and sometime suffer the consequences. I find it tough to be disappointed in somebody I never met, don't know, and only recognize the name because they are good at a sport.

    Maybe its just me but if the Patriots were to play the Colts I would want Luck to be there. I wouldn't be rooting for an injury or a suspension. If he's not playing, what's the point? Although I do understanding losing gets old, I watched 30 years of it with the Patriots.

    Maybe the Browns can make the playoffs this year, Cleveland could use it. I would like to see that. Even if they beat the Patriots I would root for them, after of course. I still respect the underdog. And if 10 years from now they were dominating the league, piping in crowd noise, heating the balls, using stick 'em etc I wouldn't turn tail. I still would remember where they came from, I won't want them punished because they got "too good."

  12. #72
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    The officials handled the balls on every single play. If they were altered in any significant way the officials would have noticed. That said, allowing anyone to play using something other than a "game ball" (bat, puck, wicket, or whatever) provided by the officials is just stupid and asking for trouble.

  13. #73
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    Well looks like more cheating storys brewing.... kind of think a history here.. and it's not about air this time..

  14. #74
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    ESPN SPYGATE Story today....Patriots have a rich history and too bad it is just not about winning but how they win.

  15. #75
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    If you know the plays your opponent are running, is that cheating?

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