Epilog vs Trotec

[Ross Moshinsky]

Care to enlighten us on what indicates a "leaking tube" as shown on "metal" plastic?

Vertical lines roughly .5" before and after a line of engraving. By metal plastic I mean gold/silver Rowmark/IPI plastic. Flexibrass or the equivalent is the best material to test on. When it just starts leaking, it won't show on other materials. When it gets bad, you'll start seeing it show up on all materials. Overall tube power will appear normal.

ULS-Leaky-Laser.jpg

[Scott Shepherd]

Ross, that's a simple tickle adjustment, not a problem with the tube. I've had that on brass before, adjusted the tickle setting, it's gone. At least on the Trotec, it was. That wasn't a leak, that was an incorrect tickle setting. Some materials are really sensitive to it, as you know, brass being one of them.

I could solve that problem in about 30 seconds without replacing the tube. I've talked a number of people through it on the phone over the years.

[Mike Null]

Ross

A "few years old" and ceramic tube don't go together. The ceramic tube is newer than that. Neither does $1500 for an exchange on a Trotec.

My current machine does not have a tickle setting but my ULS did and I agree with Scott. I had the same thing with Epilog years ago.

[Steve Clarkson]

What's a "tickle setting" on an Epilog? I've never heard that term before.

[Mark Sipes]

Here is a thread that discusses/addresses the Epilog settings.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...-Trickle/page2

.

[Jerome Stanek]

I bought my Trotec 400 80w at a trade show last fall. I had previously been researching the fusion 40 75w and the trotec 400 80w for about a year before the trade show. I had been quoted previously for both and the quotes were within a few hundred dollars of each other for as close to the same equipment as I could get. At the show I asked both companies about a show special. Epilog told me there were no show specials on the Fusion models. Trotec cut about $6000 of my quote and added in a few extras. Needless to say, I went with the trotec.

Boy if they can knock off $6000 and think nothing of it no wonder they don't want to post prices.

[Kev Williams]

According to my Gravograph manual, tickle causes the laser to fire randomly when at rest, to keep the tube "warm and ready". To adjust, you run a test, and you'll get those 'leaks' like in Ross's pic. Several lines run during the test, each line is numbered, you pick the first line that no 'leaks' occured, and enter that into the driver...

I never saw the need for it. Especially since it would only tickle when the door is shut, and my door is hardly ever shut. I only had my LS900 a short time before I yanked the front door off so I could put large items in it. And along with the door went the safety interlock, and ever since then, my door being closed isn't necessary to fire the laser. And I REALLY don't want it firing while my fingers are under the lens doing a manual focus, so, for pretty much since I've owned it the tickle has been turned off.

And I'll assume being off doesn't hurt anything, this machine will be 11 years old in 3 months, and the laser hasn't lost a step...

[Keith Winter]

Ross,

If the Trotec machine you demo'd was older than about three years it probably did not have the new ceramic tube. Take the time to investigate the new Trotec tubes, you might be surprised at the difference. There is a video on Trotec's web site about the new ceramic tubes but I couldn't find the link this morning.


100% ceramic CO2 laser source
Electrodes on the outside of the tube
No welded joints – reduced outgassing
Fired at 800oC, eliminating impurities inside of tube
Longer lifespan than other laser source at > 6 years

Keith I love Trotec but I'm not 100% in agreeance with your statement about the tubes. The jury is still out if ceramic tubes they are equal or better, less or more reliable. I had one bad ceramic tube about 9 months into the machine's life. Trotec handled it beautifully and quickly, but it is what it is, a relatively new technology in co2 lasers. The ceramic tubes simply have not been out long enough to verify this statement. That is the only part of your statement I disagree with, I think they make a fantastic machine and would recommend them to anyone. The Trotec build quality is second to none, the engrave speed is faster than the competition, and the software is light years beyond the competition.

[Keith Winter]

Actually the Trotec does have something similar to the Epilog tickle setting if you are running the newer version of the software. It's under the Service > Service Settings on job control
Tickle delay (only CO2 laser systems): Should be increased if the stamp appearsblurred.
Tickle Power (only CO2 laser systems): Power required to excite the laser tubeand put it into standby mode

Ross

A "few years old" and ceramic tube don't go together. The ceramic tube is newer than that. Neither does $1500 for an exchange on a Trotec.

My current machine does not have a tickle setting but my ULS did and I agree with Scott. I had the same thing with Epilog years ago.

[Tim Bateson]

I bought my Trotec 400 80w at a trade show last fall. I had previously been researching the fusion 40 75w and the trotec 400 80w for about a year before the trade show. I had been quoted previously for both and the quotes were within a few hundred dollars of each other for as close to the same equipment as I could get. At the show I asked both companies about a show special. Epilog told me there were no show specials on the Fusion models. Trotec cut about $6000 of my quote and added in a few extras. Needless to say, I went with the trotec.

Epilog salesman have all of the leverage to mark down machines to their cost. If this salesman wouldn't give you a ANY deal he/she was an idiot. I would have made the same choice you did. However my salesmen worked hard to keep my business and earned the sale of my Epilog M2. After a month of use I can easily say the old standard that Trotec is the best built machine, is no longer true. The Fusion M2 is every bit as good and likely better than Trotec offerings.

[Keith Winter]

It's been my experience shows are always the best price, and ULS tends to have the best pricing of all if you press them. They made it mighty tempting on a 120 watt to switch last time, almost got me, but in the end I bought a Trotec 400.

Epilog salesman have all of the leverage to mark down machines to their cost. If this salesman wouldn't give you a ANY deal he/she was an idiot. I would have made the same choice you did. However my salesmen worked hard to keep my business and earned the sale of my Epilog M2. After a month of use I can easily say the old standard that Trotec is the best built machine, is no longer true. The Fusion M2 is every bit as good and likely better than Trotec offerings.

[Scott Shepherd]

After a month of use I can easily say the old standard that Trotec is the best built machine, is no longer true. The Fusion M2 is every bit as good and likely better than Trotec offerings.

That's just an uninformed comment. If you knew the issues that they are having with Fusions, you wouldn't make that comment. The software is also a hot mess. It's like 3 pieces of software that should work together but don't. Epilog loves to release things long before they are ready.

I'll put the Trotec camera up against the Epilog camera system any day, and I'll bet my machine against yours which one will win. One absolutely critical part of using a camera is allowing for print distortion. When just about anything is printing any any roll media, you have distortion from the material being stretched on the rolls, the weight of the roll of material, the heaters drying the material, and then laminating it. The Trotec camera system will measure the registration mark and adjust the cut file for the distortion. Any of the CNC routers, like ZUND, or MultiCam or anyone using the camera systems allow for that, since it's an issue widely known.

I asked Epilog "how does it adjust for print distortion" and I was told "What? What's that?". When I described it, I was told "Oh, you'd have to modify your file in Corel for that to be accounted for".

That's not "likely better than Trotec's offerings" by any stretch of the imagination.

Trotec's also not telling Speedy 300 and 400 owners to slow their machines down to 80% speed on rastering to keep from breaking belts.

Ask Epilog how many X Axis rails that they've replaced under warranty on the Fusions. Ask them how many motherboards they've replaced, or how many motors. Hint, the answer is more than a few.

[Keith Winter]

And Steve drops the mic....and walks away

That's just an uninformed comment. If you knew the issues that they are having with Fusions, you wouldn't make that comment. The software is also a hot mess. It's like 3 pieces of software that should work together but don't. Epilog loves to release things long before they are ready.

I'll put the Trotec camera up against the Epilog camera system any day, and I'll bet my machine against yours which one will win. One absolutely critical part of using a camera is allowing for print distortion. When just about anything is printing any any roll media, you have distortion from the material being stretched on the rolls, the weight of the roll of material, the heaters drying the material, and then laminating it. The Trotec camera system will measure the registration mark and adjust the cut file for the distortion. Any of the CNC routers, like ZUND, or MultiCam or anyone using the camera systems allow for that, since it's an issue widely known.

I asked Epilog "how does it adjust for print distortion" and I was told "What? What's that?". When I described it, I was told "Oh, you'd have to modify your file in Corel for that to be accounted for".

That's not "likely better than Trotec's offerings" by any stretch of the imagination.

Trotec's also not telling Speedy 300 and 400 owners to slow their machines down to 80% speed on rastering to keep from breaking belts.

Ask Epilog how many X Axis rails that they've replaced under warranty on the Fusions. Ask them how many motherboards they've replaced, or how many motors. Hint, the answer is more than a few.

[Jacob John]

Okay boys & girls, I'm about to pull the trigger on a Epilog fusion 40 75watt or a Trotec speedy 400 80 watt. I have read about each of them on the forum. I guess what I'm looking at is the pro & cons on both of them from your point of view...lol I fine that they are both great machines. I will be using them for glass & wood products ,plus we will be using the pull through doors alot. I have a 24 mini 40 watt.

Thanks Ron Sleeman

I cannot speak about Trotec's customer service, but Epilog's is really great. I purchased a pre-owned laser, and I thought that I might get some less than stellar customer service because I didn't go with a brand new machine. Nope, they were great and very accommodating as we had some initial issues finding the original registered owner's information so that we could transfer it into my name. So far, so good with Epilog.

[Keith Outten]

It might be of interest to consider that the Trotec 80 watt machine has a ceramic tube which is the most advanced technology available today. Granted the ceramic tubes have not been around long enough to prove themselves but the technology may reduce the cost of ownership over the life of the machine dramatically. It would be prudent to check out the technology and if you believe it has value factor that into any decision to purchase. It is rare for people to discuss this technology here but it is worth the time to investigate the details, this is a very important component that can easily steer the decision to purchase in one direction or the other.

My Trotec Speedy 300 80 watt machine was one of the first that shipped with the new ceramic tube. Its over three years old and functions the same today as it did the day I received the machine. I hope that I can report the same performance level in ten years as the cost to replace an 80 watt tube is not chump change these days. I also recommend that anyone who is considering a new laser engraver inquire about the cost of tube replacement, this is not the kind of information that you want to find out later on when you need a new tube.

Keith W,

I did mention that the ceramic tubes are new and not a proven technology.
Of course my statement is based on sales to customers and I don't know how long these tubes have been tested in the lab.