Lacquer?

[Russell Neyman]

I've been a lacquer man for years -- I like the workability, high gloss, and fast-drying characteristics -- but would like to "up" my game.

Any thoughts, tips, or tricks of the trade from those of you with lacquer experience? Favorite brands? Cautionary tales?

As a starting point, I'll briefly summarize my own application process:
•. Sand to 400.
•. Application of boiled linseed oil (to enhance grain).
•. Two coats of de-waxed shellac, followed by 0000 steel wool.
•. 6-10 thin coats of high gloss Deft or Rudd high gloss lacquer, occasionally sanding between coats. I've gone as many as 40 coats.
•. After completely curing, polish with McGwyers Medium Cut auto polishing compound.
. • wax and buff.

[allen thunem]

cane share some end results from your process??

[Tracy Tame]

I, like you would like to "up" my game.
After sanding I have been using Deft sanding sealer and then Deft brushing lacquer.
Does your use of shellac replace the need for sanding sealer, or is it needed to seal the boiled linseed oil?

[Eric Gourieux]

Russell,

My process is similar, but I buff with Tripoli and then White Diamond instead of the polishing compound. How do you apply and polish with the auto compound?

To answer your question, I don't know how you would "up" your game from here. IMO, lacquer can provide the most pleasing finished product. WOP is also an option without the harmful vapors that we have to deal with when using lacquer, but it has it's drawbacks, too. I use Deft semi-gloss rattle can lacquer for most of my lacquer applications. I've tried spraying with a cheap HVLP setup but have not had any better results than with rattle can. After buffing with Tripoli and White Diamond, I wipe on micro-crystalline wax and wipe it off with an old T shirt. I don't use wax because of the fingerprint problem.

[Russell Neyman]

I have found that shellac is a universal "tie coat" that is compatible with everything I use. So, applying it over the BLO assures me of a good bond for the topcoat.

As far as rubbing out the cured lacquer, I treat it as I would auto paint: apply a little, gently buffing with a lambs wool pad mounted on my lathe until the inevitable orange peel disappears. Sometimes I wet-sand with 600 wet-and-dry sandpaper, then polish.

I'm expecting someone wiser than me to come here and tell me there's an easier way.

[Steve Huffman]

I'm not sure you can really improve on your current system Russell. I spray (spray gun/airbrush) lacquer on everything for the same reason, quick drying, and ease to work with. I also painted cars and motorcycles in my early days too, so spraying is the only way for me. I will wet sand my final coat to 800 and use rubbing compound on the lathe, then finer polishing compound, then Ren. Wax for final. Rubbing compound still leaves a dull surface, so glazing compound clears that up before you wax. If your just using rubbing compound, you'll want to add polishing compound after as well before wax.
I bought the Beall buffing system and it's sitting on my shelf. I even use this same method on finials and pedestals because there is no way you can hold a thin finial against a buffing wheel, buff it evenly or get into the tight areas. There's also a much higher risk of something bad happening like breakage or burn through even on bowls or anything you turn on the lathe. The compounds are wet so they run cooler, and you can polish up the finest finial while spinning it on the lathe with a simple paper towel. I use a very small fine cloth for the Renaissance wax though. I'm not knocking the Beall System, and though it might work for a lot of folks, it doesn't hold a candle to the compounding system I just described here. I can't even get into the bottom of smaller bowls or boxes with a buffing wheel, but I sure can get compound anywhere I can hand sand and do it safely without the risk of burn through on the sharp edges especially. Speed is another factor, I simply grab a different piece of paper towel instead of changing out one of the 3 buffer wheels.
NO MORE FUZZY WHITE FLUFF UP MY NOSE EITHER!!!

WOW, Sorry about writing the book about it... hope it helps a few out though.

Steve

Forgot to mention, compounding also works good on well cured Poly finish, but I personally think the lacquer was still a bit more shinier. My opinion, Lacquer is like glass, poly is like shiny plastic.
Just my .02¢

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Well Russell, I have to admire your process. I also apply Boiled Linseed Oil to jump start the drama of the grain but I skip the shellac. I've always felt the shellac could become the weak link in a process that includes it under lacquer. Many will argue with me because shellac can become a great binder but if it is old it can make more problems than it cures. I merely wait a good long time for the oil to dry. If I need to hurry, I would rather skip the oil all together. A thinned coat of lacquer also brings out the grain nicely.
It takes patience to spray as many coats as you do, especially since you sand between coats. I expect you are spraying nitrocellulose lacquer not a catalyzed lacquer. Like you, I always believed in the rule "It's not how much you spray on, it's how much you leave on". I changed my mind after buying Sherwin Williams pre-cat. It has a lot more solids than NC and was designed for cabinet and furniture shops who needed to save time and spray fewer coats. I thin it 30% and is still viscous enough not to run on a vertical surface. I spray the first two coats without sanding then sand with 320 grit after the second coat. I sand till all texture in the finish is dead smooth. I allow a few hours drying time prior to sanding. Sanding will not produce balls of finish by then. I use a retarder in the last coat so the finish has plenty of time to level out. I recently switched to ChemCraft because they sell it to me in gallons and their acrylic lacquer will not yellow the wood. The company I buy it from catalyzes it for me and the gallon has a six month shelf life that I stretch to a year with no problem. I buy two glosses. 90 which is and high gloss. If I want to cut the gloss I do that when I rub out the finish. I also buy 10 which is a very low gloss. I use that on pieces I carve to create a texture. I don't want to rub out finish on the texture since I will only succeed in removing lacquer on the high spots. I feel the new technology has improved my results and cut the work to achieve those results way down.
By the way, I wait a week or so after the final coat then begin rubbing out the finish with 320 or 400 working my way up to 4000. Then I Bealle buff if I want super high gloss that does not look like plastic.
faust

[robert baccus]

Sand to 220--apply heavy bodied Mohawk SS--2 coats--sand with medium sponge pads(automotive)--spray 2 coats of Mohawk Precat lacquer(sometimes just 1)--will usually be perfect gloss--adjust gloss with Auto paint stores liquid compounds--forget wheels and wax compounds and apply the liquid compounds on the lathe with a auto hand buffing pad. Time 2-4 hours.-----------If orange peel is a problem you can wet sand with soapy water and fine sponge sanding pads.----PS this lacquer must go on with no thinning and a maximum of a teaspoon of retarder--it looks too thick but flows out like glass. (60 years of lacquer use)

[Bob Bergstrom]

If spraying from a rattlesnake try warming the can in hot water before spraying. Heating the lacquer will aid in flow out. Furniture factories have been heating lacquer before it is sprayed for quite some time.

[Thom Sturgill]

Our club finishing mentor uses lacquer almost exclusively. Deft rattlecans, which have been phased out by Lowes and is no longer available locally. He had discovered that the satin and semi-gloss have a different formulation from the gloss, but work well with sanding sealer, which he thins 4-1 for the initial coats, letting the wood soak up as much as it will take. Polishing to about 8000 with micromesh brings a high gloss.

[ALAN HOLLAR]

Lacquer is a binder by it's nature, and doesn't need shellac or sanding sealer to adhere. Shellac is useful as a barrier coat to extend finish life over oily or waxy surfaces. Sanding sealer for lacquer is just lacquer with a mineral soap added to make it faster and easier to sand. It has better "hold out" than plain lacquer, bridging and filling small irregularities better. The lubricant diminishes the film strength, and can attract moisture, so topcoating with lacquer over the sealer is a must. Sealer is really a production aid and can be left out of the sequence altogether unless you are trying for a thickly built texture free finish.

[Frank Drew]

BLO then shellac then lacquer is overkill, IMHO. You might get a slight color change by starting with oil but I don't think you really get an enhanced appearance ("grain pop") vs lacquer (or shellac, or varnish) alone.

[robert baccus]

SS is the secret to a museum finish. 2 coats of an unthinned quality SS wetsanded with a fine sanding pad will level even open grained woods. Big box stores do not handle quality lacquers. Read how guitars and pianos are finished. I use Mohawk which is the same as the discontinued Behlen products but there are other good brands. SS will seal as well as 5 coats of lacquer and also has a filler which is a priceless product when filling pores ect. Shellac is a favorite of some woodturners but I can find no logical use for it. Lacquer was developed as a synthetic shellac--more durable-faster drying-no mixing or getting old. Lac in lacquer is the name of the scale insect which shellac is made from in Asia. I have shot lacquer on cars and wood since 1957 and it has changed a lot in variations. The newer pre-cat lacquers are far more durable and quick to apply than the old nitrocellulose lacquers--also much less yellow. I'm sure there are many commercial products that we do not have easy access to. Be careful as there are new types of retarders being sold to go with precat. They are 50$ a gallon and require a small fraction to defog and help flowout of your sprayjob. Most big box stores often have no idea whatthey are selling.

[Russell Neyman]

Wow, good comments. I had forgotten about heating the can of lacquer in warm water (heard that tip many years ago) but never really followed up. Now, after this, I will. And you're right that Lacquer Sanding Sealer makes a big difference as an undercoat.

Your comments about the BLO have merit, but I have been convinced that the look is deeper and richer than just lacquer alone. It also has a sticky nature, so if I spin it on and then burnish it with sawdust it acts like a grain filler, resulting in a smoother finish. BLO takes days to cure, and shellac dries in minutes, so applying that right over the linseed oil moves the process forward quicker. It's also thicker than lacquer, so the "build" occurs more quickly.

I'm not positive it really helps much, but I know just about everything can so over shellac so I've always thrown it on. Perhaps it's as much habit as anything. (When I need to re-finish a shopworn project and can't remember if the original is lacquer or poly, I add a couple of coats of de-waxed Bullseye just to be sure the new topcoat will stick.)

Faust, please expand your comment about Beall polishing; do you use Tripoli and​ White Diamond?

Thom, most Ace Hardware stores carry both the Deft lacquer and sanding sealer. Recently, a friend introduced me to Rudd lacquer, which is formulated with a higher percentage of cellulose (?) and I'm happy with those results. Hard to find, though.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

please expand your comment about Beall polishing; do you use Tripoli and​ White Diamond?

Russell,
I do use both. About now, some who have tried buffing lacquer are beginning type their stories about melting the finish. I will mention two things. I buff lightly and quickly and I spray catalyzed lacquer which dries much, much harder than NC.