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Thread: A&C Coffee-Table Build Pics – Part 4-finishing disaster!

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    A&C Coffee-Table Build Pics – Part 4-finishing disaster!

    This is part 4 of building an Arts & Crafts/Greene and Greene inspired, White Oak coffee table for our oldest son. The rest of the build is in previous posts.

    With most of the build complete, I only have a couple things left to do, or so I thought!

    Here’s a picture of a “hidden” drawer through the top rail of the side of the table. Yes, it would have been much easier to incorporate drawer guides/runners etc. earlier in the build, but this was a late addition to the build (that’s what I get for opening my mouth “Hey big boy, do you want a hidden drawer?”).
    1.jpg2.jpg


    The other late addition was a request from to add an inlaid, compass rose to the tabletop. A couple years ago I build a small chest for him with one of these inlaid in the top with his name, and I am really surprised how much he likes it.
    Here’s an image from the Internet I enlarged to the appropriate size. He didn’t want me to include the cardinal directions and I unilaterally vetoed the outer circle – which made things a little simpler.
    I approached this with trepidation; I am ready to be finished with this project, I’m not good at inlay and I don’t really enjoy it. On top of that, I was able to glue up the tabletop from a single board and I was happy with the planed surface prior to finishing.
    3.jpg5.jpg4.jpg


    Finishing is my least favorite part of the project. I have a couple “go to” finishes that I’ve done a few times and they usually turn out okay. The finish schedule for this project, which I believe is based on some kind of Stickley finish, is way more complex than what I usually do; dye (TranTint in alcohol), followed by a seal coat, followed by a wipe on gel stain, followed by surface coats of varnish.

    I’m pretty much a BOLO and shellac guy. This spells trouble for me on several counts; I’m colorblind, impatient and not artistic in the least. I should’ve known two colored steps was way out of my league. On top of that, I was trying to avoid unintentionally coloring the lighter colored inlay woods – you’re probably beginning to see the sweat pouring off my face.

    I don’t really enjoy inlay, but the compass rose is pretty simple because it’s all straight lines – I have no idea how people do this with curved/rounded images.

    I glued two sheets of commercial veneer together, attached the image with double-sided tape and chopped out the individual pieces with a sharp chisel. In retrospect, using thicker, shop sawn veneer would have saved me a lot of trouble, but I don’t really have the ability to do that with my cheesy bandsaw.
    7.jpg8.jpg

    Having done this design before, I was conscious of trying to avoid my previous mistakes by getting nice sharp corners in the inlay recess. For an old guy like me that means sharpened X-Acto knife, my sharpest chisels and magnifiers.
    6.jpg
    It turned out okay. I am in absolutely no position to offer advice about inlay. FWIW, I suggest starting with a large triangles, leave the inlay pieces a little long towards the center of the design, and after their in, trim them to the intended shape, before putting in the smaller triangles. Finally, if you know a way to get a symmetrical design with identically sized triangles that really helps. The design I printed off based on my less than rudimentary Internet skills was not symmetrical – yikes! Makes for a lot of trial and error.

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    Once all the pieces were glued in, I scraped the inlay flush with the surface. For me,

    I was really pleased with how well everything fit together.
    10.jpg



    Because I know finishing is a problem area for me, I applied the dye to the tabletop before cutting the recess for the inlay. The problem was that when scraping the inlay flush with the surface, I also scraped off some of the dyed tabletop – this is where everything started to go very wrong!
    9.jpg


    The challenge now is to replace the dye in the background, without contaminating the lighter color inlay. As you can see from the pictures I’ve absolutely no idea how to do this. I started by trying to dye the scraped background with a tiny artist brush, trying not to get any of the dye on the inlay. You can see that didn’t work out so well – it only got worse from there.

    11.jpg


    So once the hand-painted dye didn’t work out, I thought I’ll mask off the inlay (which was something I was trying to avoid in the first place) and put the wipe on gel stain over the top and maybe that will help smooth things out. As you can see, not so much! This is my worst nightmare and why I hate finishing!
    12.jpg13.jpg

    Don’t get me wrong, I completely admire and respect those that are good at finishing, and desperately wish I could do the same. The sad fact is I suck at finishing, and there is zero chance I’m ever going to get better. At this point in my younger days a hatchet and fireplace would have happened immediately with only a foggy, red tinged recollection. At my age, I settled for a lot of single malt and the Dodger game.


    The next day I plane the surface clean, masked off the inlay and applied the dye, and later the seal coat. So far looks okay, but I’m sure you can understand why I put the hatchet in my neighbor’s garage for a few days.
    14.jpg15.jpg

    Here’s what the finish is supposed to look like.

    16.jpg

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    18.jpg17.jpg

    It’s a lot darker/redder than what I was imagining, but that’s nobody’s fault but my own. My oldest, super optimistic son said he loves it and can’t wait to put it in his living room. The creative conscious of our family my lovely wife said “I’m disappointed it turned out so dark, I was hoping for more of a golden oak color”. I thought to myself, “really sweetheart, after 30 years, can’t you just throw the old man a bone and say something benign like “that’s lovely, I’m sure Taylor will be very happy”?


    Just one of the reasons why I it’s clear to me I married well about myself; if I screw up, I’m always going to hear about it, but usually after a few hours of the silent treatment, the LOML realizes she perhaps let her creative sensibilities superseded her best judgement and goes out of her way to say something nice. Does it to make me shallow that I’m completely content with that?

    There is a better than 50/50 chance I won’t post again on this thread, which means everything was crushed in an irrational rage and is in the burn pile. If I get lucky, I may have some pictures of the finished project with the ugly tabletop finish/inlay carefully avoided.

    Thanks for looking,
    Best, Mike

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    Mike, I feel the need to reply to this because you're in a pain I can well and truly feel. I think your inlay technique looks great, the problem was the dye. As someone who shares your lack of experience with the higher forms of finishing, my approach has been to try to adjust the aesthetic goal with one's capabilities. Because of that I would never dream of using a dye on a project, especially with such a gorgeous matched panel as you were able to acquire and plane to what looks like perfection. It might not end up looking exactly like a G&G finish, but how important is that?
    Can you smooth and/or scrape down the entire panel with absolutely sharp edges to bare wood? Then perhaps seal with a thin and rubbed out coat of light garnet or amber shellac that approaches the color you want before applying your final finish? (Shellac does tend to darken over time.) The color tones achievable with shellac are many and varied, and it can be far more forgiving than what you have attempted. Take or leave my humble advice, but don't give up.
    David B. Morris

    "Holz ist heilig."

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    I like the red tone

    Don't turn it into dust!!! I for one like the red tone, and incorporated into this sewing notions cabinet made for my wife several years back. This was a piece I designed myself. I was going to build a hutch. I had visions of her using the retractable workbench as a sewing table. Instead she uses the cabinet as a place to hord cloth, and the retractable workbench I think was used once to serve desserts at a family gathering. You can't hit a home run everytime!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Mike, I like the tone as well. You do excellent work and I admire your inlay ability. When it comes to finishing, I don't have much experience or confidence beyond Watco and shellac. Because of that, when planning something different I always create a test board when building a project. I prepare it exactly the way I prepare the project as I go along and have even layed in inlay if included in the project. I then divide it into separate sections with tape. That will give me about 4-8 sections to test.
    Its a bit of a pain, but in the end have always been happy I did it.
    Not trying to be shoulda, woulda, coulda...I just feel your pain, because I've been there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A Faulkner View Post
    I for one like the red tone, and incorporated into this sewing notions cabinet made for my wife several years back. This was a piece I designed myself. I was going to build a hutch. I had visions of her using the retractable workbench as a sewing table. Instead she uses the cabinet as a place to hord cloth, and the retractable workbench I think was used once to serve desserts at a family gathering. You can't hit a home run everytime!


    Joe, I really like your sewing table – nice work! Even better that your wife uses it for multiple purposes.I would love to see more pictures of your work.

    Glad to hear you like the red tone; maybe it will grow on me. Frankly, doesn't really matter because it's going to our oldest and he seems to like it.

    I hear you about you can always hit a home run. When it comes to basic woodworking skills sawing, planing, joinery etc. (aside from finishing), I'm just confident enough to occasionally think I can stretch a stand up double into a triple. That's usually when skills I'm not good at like finishing, bite me on the butt and I end up getting thrown out at third.

    All the best, Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B. Morris View Post
    As someone who shares your lack of experience with the higher forms of finishing, my approach has been to try to adjust the aesthetic goal with one's capabilities. Because of that I would never dream of using a dye on a project, especially with such a gorgeous matched panel as you were able to acquire and plane to what looks like perfection. It might not end up looking exactly like a G&G finish, but how important is that?
    Can you smooth and/or scrape down the entire panel with absolutely sharp edges to bare wood? Then perhaps seal with a thin and rubbed out coat of light garnet or amber shellac that approaches the color you want before applying your final finish? (Shellac does tend to darken over time.) The color tones achievable with shellac are many and varied, and it can be far more forgiving than what you have attempted. Take or leave my humble advice, but don't give up.


    Thanks David I appreciate the advice about adjusting the aesthetic goal of the project to my capabilities. That is completely reasonable; I really enjoy the building process a lot more than try to achieve any particular look. I don't really like design or planning, which is why I prefer building copies of existing furniture. I couldn't find an existing coffee table I liked, which is why I had to design this one myself. My lack of enthusiasm for design is evidenced by the fact I decided to add the inlay at the end and never really considered that the dye and wipe on stain would be problematic with the lighter color inlay. I hate when my laziness/lack of planning catches up with me ! I can hear my Dad's voice "Did you think this all the way through before you started?", Well, of course not Dad, I'm way too impatient for that.

    I did scrape/plane off the finish, unfortunately with the extra, unanticipated planing, I started to go through the upper layer of the veneer in the inlay. The last two pictures in the post above are the tabletop after I scraped off the finish, masked over the inlay and reapplied the dye. Now I'm hoping the masking tape will hold up when I reapply the wipe on stain. If that works, I should be able to put the surface coats of varnish on over the whole tabletop – that's the plan anyway (fingers crossed).

    Watco and shellac is my go to finish, although I typically only use the lighter color blonde/amber shellac. I really didn't think about trying to achieve the darker color with a darker color of shellac. That's a great idea – I'll order some darker color shellacking give that a try. Maybe not on this project but something down the road.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Mueller View Post
    When it comes to finishing, I don't have much experience or confidence beyond Watco and shellac. Because of that, when planning something different I always create a test board when building a project. I prepare it exactly the way I prepare the project as I go along and have even layed in inlay if included in the project. I then divide it into separate sections with tape. That will give me about 4-8 sections to test.
    Its a bit of a pain, but in the end have always been happy I did it.
    Not trying to be shoulda, woulda, coulda...I just feel your pain, because I've been there.

    Phil you are 100% right – I should have made up a test board to evaluate finishes before diving in on the project. Because I basically use the same finish all the time (Watco and shellac), I've gotten out of the habit and that clearly would have saved me a lot of trouble on this project.I sincerely appreciate your reminder.

    Finishing is my least favorite part of any project. By the time I get to that stage, I have invested enough time and effort that I want it to turn out good, but it seems like for me only bad things can happen – my finishes never really make a project look better, it's just a question of how much I screw it up. If I can recover from this screwup, it's probably going to be a while before I try adding any color/stain/dye to future projects. As a woodworker (not designer/artist), I like the look of natural wood surfaces. Colors typically only enter the equation for me as a request from the boss to try and "match" some other existing woodwork in the house.

    All the best, Mike

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    Mike said "I'm just confident enough to occasionally think I can stretch a stand up double into a triple. That's usually when skills I'm not good at like finishing, bite me on the butt and I end up getting thrown out at third."

    And that right there is how we learn.

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    Mike, as always, thanks for sharing your many ups and especially the (rare) downs. Was crying with you until this and then just laughing through the tears:


    "The creative conscious of our family my lovely wife said “I’m disappointed it turned out so dark, I was hoping for more of a golden oak color”. I thought to myself, “really sweetheart, after 30 years, can’t you just throw the old man a bone and say something benign like “that’s lovely, I’m sure Taylor will be very happy”?

    and the happy ending

    "Just one of the reasons why I it’s clear to me I married well about myself; if I screw up, I’m always going to hear about it, but usually after a few hours of the silent treatment, the LOML realizes she perhaps let her creative sensibilities superseded her best judgement and goes out of her way to say something nice. Does it to make me shallow that I’m completely content with that?"

    Great piece, and remember to throw yourself your own bone -- I'm sure Taylor will be very happy too!

    Cheers,
    C
    "You can observe a lot just by watching."
    --Yogi Berra

  12. #12
    It's nice to see heroes are real people too. Anyway, had you not posted the gel stain interim pic, I would have thought this was yet another home run.

    I love dye. I love inlays. But just as I love Bourbon and Single Malt, I sip them separately.

    "Just one of the reasons why I it’s clear to me I married well above myself; if I screw up, I’m always going to hear about it. But usually after a few hours of the silent treatment, the LOML realizes she perhaps let her creative sensibilities supersede her best judgement and goes out of her way to say something nice. Does it to make me shallow that I’m completely content with that?"

    This is a poignant statement that I empathize with. No, yr not shallow, just loved.



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    Michael,

    I feel for ya man! BUT, got to admit to a huge amount of surprise; I did not think you were capable of faux pas . . . . . guess you are human afterall. Everything else you have posted has been stellar to view and humbling to us mere mortals.

    Hindsight is always 20-20. I REALLY like the inlay. Guessing it all starting going down the proverbial slopchute when you were inlaying the "west" part of the compass as the NW and SW colors got flipped. Personally, I blame the leprechauns when things like this happen.

    Your son will love it and be quite happy to have it. I always enjoy your posts. Patrick

    HEY, I just did a doubletake on the background to one of the pictures: it looks like there are a couple of Japanese pull saws snuggled in amongst your stash of eye candy. How did those get there?

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    Mike, I think that you should give yourself more credit, this is a gorgeous bit of woodwork, it's no surprise that your son is proud to have it.

    i share your sentiment with regard to finishing, least favourite part of my projects.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

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    I do like the color and finish and I'm sure it will be much appreciated. Like others, I dread the finishing aspect. Its the most stressful aspect of the work because, you know, if something goes wrong its a ton of work to fix it. Very nicely done Mike!

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