CBN wheel on Tormek?

[Ron Borowicz]

The Tormek with white or black wheels takes a "long time" if you are going to do any serious shaping. Would a Tormek with a 180 grit CBN wheel take less time?

[Jack Lemley]

Woodturner's Wonders has the CBN for $145 right now. Is it possible to put a CBN on the left side of the Tormek to get the tools reground quickly then switch to tight side for honing and then pull the CBN off and put leather strop back on to finish? If so I am thinking a 180 grit CBN. What do you all think?

Thanks
Jack

[David Walser]

Sounds like it should work. The problem would be mounting the wheel in place of the leather strop. IIRC, the leather wheel does not mount on the shaft. It is bolted to the drive wheel. If you can figure a way to mount the CBN wheel in place of the leather strop, let us know how it works!

[Pat Scott]

[QUOTE=Jack Lemley;2454416]Woodturner's Wonders has the CBN for $145 right now.[QUOTE]

Jack the 10" Tormek is $245, not $145. Still a good deal in my book considering a Blackstone is $210.

Ron I think a 180 CBN is faster than a regular 180 grit AO wheel, but I haven't got a definitive reply on my email asking about that.

[Reed Gray]

I would say that the 180 grit CBN wheel cuts faster than a standard 120 grit aluminum oxide wheel. For sure when they are brand new, but even after they break in, they cut really fast. They do leave a much more polished looking edge as well, but have never seen a micro photo of the edges to compare. It has been 10 or so years since I used standard Aluminum oxide wheels, so this may not be accurate. Getting grits in aluminum oxide finer than 120 grit is next to impossible, though I had a friend that had a 6 inch Grizzly grinder that had a 320 grit wheel on it. When it wore out, he was not able to replace it.

robo hippy

[Jimmy Edwards]

Pat I'm leaning the same way but can't decide on which grit. Checked the Craft Supply website on their CBN wheels (made in Austria). It said to use them on a slow speed grinder (1750 rpm). I am going to SWAT Aug 21-23 and will talk to Craft and a bunch of turners about these very issues, especially using CBN wheels on a tormek 90 rpm machine. Remembe,r I used it once with a 180 grit and it was very good. A much higher CBN grit should polish the tool like the Tormek blackstone. When I buy I will buy from the WW guy.

[Reed Gray]

Jimmy, the CBN wheels that Craft supplies, are the same ones that Woodcraft sells, and they are 1 inch wide versions of the Optigrind wheels, which are made in Austria. The standard wheels from Optigrind are 1 1/2 inches wide. For speed, well, Dave Schweitzer of D Way has a high speed 10 inch Jet grinder with 10 inch wheels that are in the 40 grit range. The thing about running these wheels on high speed grinders is that the wheels come spin and bubble balanced. This means that if they wobble, then your grinder is at fault (there have been a couple of instances where it was the wheel, but this is rare. I have not tried the CBN wheels with grits above 180, so don't know how those cut. It would be interesting to see micro photographs of the edges right off the wheels comparing the grits and new vs broken in wheels. As I said above, I have not tried them on my Tormek. I Only use that for kitchen knives. It does have a black wheel on it, and I have sharpened my gouges on it once or twice, but didn't notice any improvement. I have about a 3,000 word article on my web site www.robohippy.com and I also posted a link to it here a while back. It was also in Woodturning Design magazine a couple of months ago.

robo hippy

[Mike Holbrook]

I understand that some metals have a tendency to stick to CBN wheels. I am wondering if there is steal embedded in the wheel that is rusting, not steel dust but steel that looks like it is part of the wheel but came off of something that was sharpened?

I think I would go with a larger grit on a Tormek, due to the slower speed the wheel will turn at.

[John K Jordan]

Pat, I just saw this while searching the forum for "Tormek". (I have one and would like to get a second one.) It is probably too late for your decision but perhaps someone will be interested.

I bought the 10" 600 grit CBN wheel for the Tormek from Ken Rizza at Woodturners Wonders a few months ago. I went through two of the original Tormek stones in maybe 14 years.

The 600 grit is more aggressive than I thought it would be. (Note that during the "break-in" period it is VERY aggressive.) I was afraid it would be too fine but it is not. Although slower than a grinding wheel it sharpens more quickly than the wet stone. However, it does not give as fine an edge as the water stone The CBN wheel is a LOT quicker to set up to use since I don't have to to fill the tray with water then wait and refill until the wheel is saturated.

One thing - it spreads a lot more metal dust around since the wheel is not running in water to catch the dust. And when sharpening with the wheel moving away from the edge (from the front of the machine) a plume of metal dust will often trail the edge, stuck there by magnetism in the tool. (I don't magnetize the tools, they just get that way) It doesn't hurt anything but it is annoying. I keep an old bulk tape demagnetizer handy to stop this.

I mounted a Tormek support bar on my 3/4 hp grinder and use it with a 240 grit CBN wheel with the Tormek jigs for when I need to shape a tool quickly. Then I move the jig to the Tormek to finish sharpening if needed. The finish from the 240 grit wheel is OK for some tools.

I'm looking for a second (used) Tormek to put next to this one. The 600 wheel is great but on my spindle turning tools I like the finer edge I get with the water stone.

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

The thing I find most curious about CBN wheels is that when they are brand new how fast they cut. Then, as they get broken in, they still cut pretty fast, but the edge looks much more polished, almost a mirror like finish. Some one needs to do the micro photograph thing to compare the edges of CBN and more standard wheels.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

Some one needs to do the micro photograph thing to compare the edges of CBN and more standard wheels.

That's an excellent idea, I'd like to know that too. I try to do that when I get the time. I'll need to figure out if I have a equivalent grit on one of my standard grinding wheels.

JKJ

[John Grace]

FWI...I've been reviewing several of the referenced retailers as I've read through this thread and WoodTurners Wonders appears to be having a very good sale, a two CBN wheel set in either the 6" or 8" for $250.

[Mike Goetzke]

Are the CBN wheels some type of carbon steel? If good quality stainless would it be possible to use them with the water tub on the Tormek to reduce dust?

[John K Jordan]

Are the CBN wheels some type of carbon steel? If good quality stainless would it be possible to use them with the water tub on the Tormek to reduce dust?

Many are steel, but those I have are aluminum. Maybe the mfr would know if they can run in water. I wonder if they would degrade over time with corrosion; I don't know if cubic boron nitride is conductive and would set up a galvanic reaction, especially with steel dust present. I'd hate to use mine as an experiment!

JKJ

[Pat Scott]

...I went through two of the original Tormek stones in maybe 14 years.

Although slower than a grinding wheel it sharpens more quickly than the wet stone. However, it does not give as fine an edge as the water stone The CBN wheel is a LOT quicker to set up to use since I don't have to to fill the tray with water then wait and refill until the wheel is saturated.

One thing - it spreads a lot more metal dust around since the wheel is not running in water to catch the dust. And when sharpening with the wheel moving away from the edge (from the front of the machine) a plume of metal dust will often trail the edge, stuck there by magnetism in the tool. (I don't magnetize the tools, they just get that way) It doesn't hurt anything but it is annoying. I keep an old bulk tape demagnetizer handy to stop this.

I mounted a Tormek support bar on my 3/4 hp grinder and use it with a 240 grit CBN wheel with the Tormek jigs for when I need to shape a tool quickly. Then I move the jig to the Tormek to finish sharpening if needed. The finish from the 240 grit wheel is OK for some tools.

JKJ

Once I thought about it, I went through the original white stone and a Blackstone in probably 14 years also. I didn't like how often I had to regrade the wheels.

I ended up buying a 320 grit CBN from WoodTurners Wonders for my Tormek. I wanted something that was equivalent to the Blackstone as far as aggressiveness, and I just couldn't get it through my head that a 600 grit CBN would be. After ordering the wheel, Ken at WTW agreed that my 320 was the right choice. I had misunderstood him initially and thought he said the 600 would be the equal to the 220 Blackstone.

I sharpened a gouge with the Blackstone and looked at the grooves or polish of the bevel. Then I installed the 320 CBN and sharpened the same gouge. To be honest I couldn't tell much difference so I was happy. I've had it for several months now and have no regrets. I agree that it's nice not having to fill the water tray and wait for the wheel to soak it all in. I do have metal dust trailing the edge which is kind of irritating. I filled the tray with water one time which did help. The problem is I didn't remove the tray afterwards and now I have a rust spot on my brand new wheel. It doesn't seem to affect the performance, it just doesn't look nice and shiny anymore. So I don't use water anymore and put up with the metal filings sticking to the end of the gouge. I did put a magnet in the bottom of the empty tray and put the tray in place to try and capture the metal, but it still happens. I have a small demagnetizer that I can play with.

I also noticed the aluminum wheel is kind of "tingy" sometimes when grinding. Just an observation is all.

I also have the Tormek support bar for my dry grinder but haven't got around to mounting it yet.