Wooden vise jaws

[Reinis Kanders]

Should I expect a lot of movement in a vise jaws, e.g. cupping?
I am moving from steel Jorgensen QR with 3/4" oak jaws on steel to fancy Veritas QR with QS Ash jaws, front jaw is 1 3/4", rear jaw is 1 1/4". Now I am having some concerns about what to do if the vise jaws start cupping. I plan glue some leather on them and will not be able to fix the cup afterwards.

Twin screw vise that I moved to the secondary bench has a big 2"x8"X28" jaw that I glued last winter from a tight grained kind of QS fir that came from a log right next to the pith 1x12 with 1/2" flat sawn oak face. This jaw has really cupped (~ 1/16"). I have another lamination that has cupped where I only took QS parts from the two sides of a fir plank and also laminated with Oak face.
Is all this cupping because laminating Oak faces? I previously had some mystery spf jaws on the twin screw and those stayed pretty flat.

What has your experience been? Maybe I should just use plywood and edge it with some wood for looks? Really would not want to look at the plywood edges. I guess I could make a separate vise liner, but that would take away from the jaw openings.

Thanks.

[glenn bradley]

Ash should be fairly stable. I have used beech and hard maple both without any issue over time. I do live in SoCal so the humidity swing is pretty narrow.

[Matthew N. Masail]

If using wood for a vise jaw (and it is nice to use wood) I usually glue 2 flat sawn pieces and laminate them so that they opposite each other in grain direction. also choose wood with as little as possible run-out. or you could find a board that is proven to be stable over the seasons in your shop.


Whether I use plywood or wood, I almost always laminate a piece of formica to the jaw face, this resists the tendency of the top of the jaw to split\break\round over time. since formica isn't friendly to work pieces a thin piece of synthetic leather is glued on, I use synthetic leather because the backing will glue very well compared with real leather, it is thinner so less pressure is needed to hold work and it protects wood just fine. so far this is the best setup I've come up with.

[Reinis Kanders]

I am in Northeast near ocean and my workshop is on unheated south facing porch so environment is pretty challenging.

Matthew, thanks for the ideas. Where do you find formica in small amounts? Home depot? Do you laminate with rubber cement?

Thanks!

[John Vernier]

If you are using quarter sawn ash (that is what you meant, right?), cupping should not be much of a problem. Flat sawn material is more susceptible to cupping. I suspect you may be seeing some cupping in your jaws because the laminated material you put on one side is preventing the board from absorbing moisture evenly. I think the glue line itself can act as a moisture barrier, so it's best to balance your glue-up (that's why plywood almost invariably has an odd number of plies, thus an even number of glue lines).

[Reinis Kanders]

Thanks John! What about the glue line from gluing leather to the jaws? Do you think that could cause problem as well?
I am probably overthinking this. Veritas does not mention anything in their installation directions about cupping, etc. and do advise to use leather. On the other hand they want me to attach the vise with four 1 1/2 lag bolts, which seems to be somewhat inadequate.

If you are using quarter sawn ash (that is what you meant, right?), cupping should not be much of a problem. Flat sawn material is more susceptible to cupping. I suspect you may be seeing some cupping in your jaws because the laminated material you put on one side is preventing the board from absorbing moisture evenly. I think the glue line itself can act as a moisture barrier, so it's best to balance your glue-up (that's why plywood almost invariably has an odd number of plies, thus an even number of glue lines).

[John Vernier]

I glued thin leather on to my vise chop (just SYP cause I figured it was expendable, though it has lasted 3 years so far), using liquid hide glue, and I haven't had a problem. Contact cement might make more of a moisture barrier. I admit I'm speculating a bit about the glue-line barrier thing, based on discussion with some more experienced craftsmen over the years. What I said about plywood is generally true, and I've seen unbalanced veneer and laminate panels which warped badly, but I've seen other examples where they got away with a one-sided veneer glue up. I suppose much depends on the quality of your substrate. For a vise chop, made of QS ash, I think you will fine.

Incidentally I think attaching your vise with four 1 1/2 lag bolts will be fine too, as long as you don't pound on your vise much. If you have room for longer bolts, use them, and if you want to use proper carriage bolts and nuts so much the better. My Record QR vise is attached with lag bolts (long story - this was supposed to be a cheap temporary bench), and so far so good.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I am in Northeast near ocean and my workshop is on unheated south facing porch so environment is pretty challenging.

Matthew, thanks for the ideas. Where do you find formica in small amounts? Home depot? Do you laminate with rubber cement?

Thanks!

Yes, contact cement is what I use. though you could also use a high quality slow cure epoxy. almost any "modern industrial" woodshop should have piles of off cuts of formica in various patterns\colors, the textured ones also make a great surface for a sharpening station! just use strips of high friction tape along the top and on the stone basses and nothing will move.