Never used trans-tints

[Jay Jolliffe]

I have to finish a white oak cabinet with a Mission Oak finish. In reading the procedure I'm suppose to start of with using trans-tint first. Can this be done before I glue the cabinet together ?. Seeing as it's not an oil base stain would that hinder the bonding surface for the glue .

[George Bokros]

Dye will not seal the grain so glue will bond fine on a dyed surface as long as you do not apply a varnish or poly before assembly.

[Jay Jolliffe]

So do you think that would be the way to go seeing as there are a lot of parts to glue together....I know from the past if you don't get all the glue off before staining it looks really bad...I don't usually put finish on when I build something someone else does it on the job but this is on me....

[John TenEyck]

I would not dye only before glue up. If you do and then you wipe any glue away with a wet cloth during glue up you risk removing some of the dye, or getting glue into the pores of the wood which you then cannot sand or scrape away. If you want to dye before glue up, I would mask off the joints, and then do most of the entire finishing process first, at least as far as getting a water resistant sealer on it. Many folks do the complete finishing process before glue up. As long as the joints are protected there will be no glue adhesion problems.

I don't see any advantage of only dying the parts first. There are advantages, sometimes, of doing the entire finishing process first.

John

[George Bokros]

I second what John T says.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I do this all the time. QSWO, dye, etc.

I always finish the components before I glue them up. The dye will not inhibit the glue, as noted. At the same time, John 10 is correct in that just the dye is not going far enough - you have not protected the waterborne dye from the water based glue.

I finish them all the way - well, 95%.

Some quick work with blue tape, and your tenons are protected. You really have to try to ruin the inside of the mortises - a little bit of wrap around into the mortise is fine.

I do this:
> 1# clear shellac - 2 coats as sealer.
> Light sanding 400g
> Dye. TransFAST not TransTINT
> wait overnight
> shellac seal coat
> dark gel stain - wipe into grain and immediately wipe off - dry rag in on had while the other applies it - you are filling the grain, not staining the wood
> overnight
> shellac seal coat
> brush on coats of Waterlox, whatever.
> Assemble
> FInal wipe-on coat of varnish thinned 50/50

YOu have to at least put the shellac seal coat on top of the dye before assembly - that way, you can still wipe the glue squeezeout off without harming the dye.

I apply shellac with a pad. TransTINT color will lift. TransFAST will not lift.

If you use the transTInt, then you need to spray on the shellac - so you need to do a good job of taping the joinery [I never tape nuttin - it is easy to do it right without the tape, but I can't use TransTINT].

[Mike Gresham]

Like Kent, I finish soup to nuts before assembly. I haven't run into a problem with the Transtint dye lifting, but I haven't used shellac. I use the GF finishes recommended in the Homestead procedure.

[Curt Harms]

Put me in the 'tape glue surfaces then finish' camp. I also tape around glue surfaces when not finishing first. Tape next to the joints, spread glue, assemble and remove the tape. No glue on any wood not part of the joint and simple cleanup - just remove the tape with glue on it. The only trick is to not get any tape in the joint. It can be pretty tedious getting all visible tape out of a glued joint.

[Kent A Bathurst]

The real trigger for me is that I frequently use $$$ QSWO. WO has deeeeep pores. Glue squeeze out - try to wipe it off with damp rag and you have ruined your day. That glue is in those pores and dye/stain has zero shot at it. With at least shellac over the color coat, the squeeze out can be easily wiped up with a damp rag, and no harm-no foul.

The first time this happened to me, I just sat down, and wanted to cry. But - it was pilot error, not equipment failure: I flew it into the hill.

Hey - John Ten - have you used the UV additive and blacklight? Does it help?

[Kent A Bathurst]

Like Kent, I finish soup to nuts before assembly. I haven't run into a problem with the Transtint dye lifting, but I haven't used shellac. I use the GF finishes recommended in the Homestead procedure.

GF is good stuff, no doubt. It is worthwhile to note that Jeff changed his recipes to use GF when he changed to supplying GF at Homestead. Don't blame him one bit - Ida done the same. Just Saying.......not the Holy Grail. But, again - a very solid product, as is everything he sells - never had any qualms about ordering anything from him - he won't offer anything but top-notch materials/supplies.

[John TenEyck]

Hi Kent,

No, I haven't had a reason to use the UV additive and blacklight yet. Didn't think it was needed when building my deck ! and haven't built any furniture lately worthy of trying it. But I will this Fall/Winter when I get back to full furniture mode. I gotta look for those old Jimi posters though. Someone recently said that black locust flouresces under black light. I gotta see if that's true for something made with it after finishing. That would be cool.

John

[Kent A Bathurst]

OK - had forgotten all about it until this thread.

FWIW - Get some Tide powder detergent. A little bit in a bowl. Add water to make a slurry - not soupy, not pasty.

Stick your fingers in it, and then flick them toward the ceiling.

Under a black light, the Tide glows like stars, man. Jimi and Doors posters on the wall. The Dead on the stereo.

Groovy. Far out.