16 inch jointer performance questions.

[Joe Calhoon]

I have been using the Kanafusa knives in jointer and planer for a few months now. Too soon to have an opinion. They are less than carbide but still spendy. For sure better than M42 or HSS but I am suspecting carbide might be the least costly in the long run. I have been using carbide Tersa in the S4S machine. They have probably seen 40K bd ft and on the second sharpening. I also have some Leitz terse clone HSS for that machine and they have done well and also on the second sharpening. They are as much as Kanafusa and suspect they are coated. I am seeing some small ridges on the planer Kanafusa after about 500 Bd Ft and that worries me a bit. We are in the middle of a knotty white oak door and millwork project. That should be a good test.

[Mel Fulks]

Joe, some might not get through your terms, M42 is a high speed steel and most of what is sold as "HSS" is only semi high speed steel having about the same hardness ,and much lower heat resistance. What is sold as HSS will often put striations in the first board that goes through the machine, and that is partly caused by overheating the edge even with the cooling fluid going. I don't see changing knives as a big deal,but sometimes I think others are just hoping someone else will do it. I think for small job commercial shops, and home shops M2 leaves a much better finish than "HSS" and no better finish will result from more expensive steel,just more footage before sharpening. Certainly with exotics ,white oak, etc it's nice to have a steel that requires less sharpening or changing in the middle of job.

[ian maybury]

Most of my experience is with machining/engineering, but for sure it's got these days where at the less than premium end of the market the label 'HSS' is pretty meaningless...

[Joe Calhoon]

Mel
Tersa is a little different animal because of the thinness of the knives. I agree with what you are saying in regards to thick knives but it changes with the Tersa. My experience with M42 and the standard HSS with Tersa is not good. I think because of the thinness. Probably fine if you are just running clear softwoods. And I know the old thick M42 would leave a nicer finish than thick carbide knives. Not so with the Tersa. The carbide is just as good or better. The same is true with shapers. The old thick HSS would do better than thick carbide braised. Newer insert with the thin micro polished inserts will give a better finish and long lasting.

Many advances have been made in tooling. Its beyond the reach of small shops but insert tools in Hydro or Shrink fit heads run on molders or machines like the Weinig Contourex leave a finish that is something to see.

[Mel Fulks]

Joe,thanks for your reply with additional info,I didn't realize you were referring to TERSA. Your posts carry deserved weight and I was just concerned about the small and home shop guys who often think they are buying HSS when they are really buying semi high speed. I know smart small shop owners who bought widebelt sanders to remove tear out they would not have had without dishonest "high speed" quotes. I'm aware of hydro lock type stuff but never seen it.

[David Zaret]

so far in my travels, i'm seeing relatively positive results with the tersa kanefusas. i'm probably 1000 bdft in on the first edge, mostly hardwoods, and they still seem pretty sharp. compare that with M42s, where i can blow through an edge in a few hundred bdft if it's really hard stuff, or a little more if softer. i still have my eye on carbides though, and after seeing joe's post above, i might pull the trigger.

the last machine i had was a minimax and i had a byrd head made for it. it was a huge improvement over the straight knife head that was on it, but from a quality point-of-view, in my opinion, nothing touches the cut of sharp tersas. the cut quality is just exceptional. but, the life of standard knives is weak.

joe - where and how do you get your carbide tersas sharpened? thanks.

[Joe Calhoon]

joe - where and how do you get your carbide tersas sharpened? thanks.

http://www.kyocera-unimerco.com

[Larry Edgerton]

I had the same Porter Jointer up until a couple of years ago. I did have a time getting it tuned but once there it stayed. Knife projection was more than normal but the knives were THICK! The tables on mine could be slid forward and back to get the table very close to the knives so that was not a problem. Not all of them I have seen had this feature but you could check.

I agree that the Tersa knives seem to have a shortened life. But they are so easy! I have gone to carbide recently and so far am happy with the results. Still get a better than average finish, which surprised me. I was expecting less but they seem to be just as good as the M42. It is my understanding that the carbide can be of a tighter grain structure because it does not need to be braised. Can't say this is a fact but it is something I have read several times.

[Larry Edgerton]

I priced out those Kanefusa blades here in Canada, and they were not much cheaper than Tersa carbide. Don't know how they compare in application

mreza, I found the best price for tersa carbide up in your neighborhood. I ended up paying about 140 US after the exchange rate for 520's. Some place in BC, I can look it up if you like.

[Erik Loza]

I had no idea anyone re-sharpened Tersa knives.

Erik

[peter gagliardi]

I don't know about Tersa, but Terminus advertises one sharpening. Of course then you technically get into resetting the machine to do it correctly. I have had some success without resetting though.

[mreza Salav]

mreza, I found the best price for tersa carbide up in your neighborhood. I ended up paying about 140 US after the exchange rate for 520's. Some place in BC, I can look it up if you like.

I buy my blades from tersaknives.com which are in BC. Their pricing is the best I've found (and good service).

[Mel Fulks]

Since just several thousandths difference between height of knives and outfeed table make a difference as to whether a jointed edge is straight, has snipe, convex edge,or concave edge ,my guess would be you could hone TERSA knives a little but not ,remove nicks without making out feed table adjustment necessary. On two jointers used in employments I made a magnet gauge to set knives. Both machines were old iron and the out feed tables were adjusted by a wheel,not a lever. I determined how much a complete turn of wheel lifted table,then filed notches on circumference edge representing 2 thousandths. Those notches were about 3/8 of an inch apart. I made a position pointer from sheet steel much like those commonly seen on various machines. My magnet gauge was made so that I would first drop out feed table to correct line
labeled on wheel that allowed installing knives in a vertical position. After all three were done I would turn wheel elevating
table position to "0". No further adjustment needed. One of the machines had indexing holes in cutter head end and that
made the alteration quite precise. While not applicable to all jointers I think that is a good system for low cost sharp knives and quick special adjustment.

[Joe Calhoon]

I had no idea anyone re-sharpened Tersa knives.

Erik

Its only worth it for the carbide. I did have my coated Leitz knives resharpened by them and that worked out. Kanafusa say theirs cannot be sharpened. Because of the cost I may give it a try.

[Larry Edgerton]

Joe, I went to the carbide because I had to plane about 2000 ft. of Makore, almost as bad as Teak on knives. Glad you nudged me into it, they are still planing well today, where with M42 I would have burned up a few and had nothing.

I had a tube full of dull M42's, have thought about having them sharpened but was wondering if it would really be worth the cost/time. It would throw off the thickness indicator I imagine as well, but I could get around that if it was worth while.

What is the cost per knife?

Thanks, Larry