My least expensive dust collection system And my shop

[William C Rogers]

My shop is a 30' X 50' pole barn, however I also use it for my lawnmower, Gator, and garden tools. That took a 12' X 16' footprint and I put in a half bath, another 6' X 8' footprint. I lost space, but did not want to maintain another out building.
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I have been a hose dragger for 15 years or so. I finally have a system where I have minimized and almost eliminated this. I did everything the least expensive way I could, but wanted a decent system. I am very happy with the results. I used 6" 30ga duct and fittings. I previously did testing and found by adding a plywood ring midway of the pipe would eliminate any chance of collapse in the duct and none of the fittings showed any sign of deformation in my testing. I also used a EBay cyclone.
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The drum sander and jointer/planner I move to an open area and hook up to a 6" flex hose drop. Just don't have the room to make everything stationary. All of the other tools are connected and blast gates are installed.

I saw where someone on this site used a 6" PVC pipe over the lathe for fine dust collection. I had a piece so will try. It is adjustable. Since I had so much 4" hose from my hose dragging days I used some for a 20' floor sweep. It also reaches the table saw area.

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The small lathe has a Big Gulp.

The results! I have planned and joined about 7 eight foot by 7" hard maple boards and have run the drum sander about 6 hours making some cutting boards. The first picture is the second barrel, it has one joined/planned board chips on the bottom and the top half was from the drum sander. The second picture shows the outside exhaust area. Just a little light dust there. I put a finger mark on the trailer to try and show the extent. I am very satisfied with the results.

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Total cost for everything was around $1400. I had $700 from previous (includes $300 for used Jet 1900) and spent another $700. This doesn't include $400 I spent for 2 Wynn filters I now need to sell and will loose about $250 on that, bringing the total to $1650.

I still ill have work to do such as building a miter saw table and enlarging ports where possible. Conclusion, yes a definite performance increase using 6" duct. IMO the EBay cyclone performs very well, better than I anticipated.

[Bruce Page]

Sweet set up William. I don't know what I'd do with that much room..and a wetroom too!
I love your DC system but I'll probably always be a hose dragger.

[Rick Potter]

Nice shop William. Love the two lathes.

[Kent Adams]

Really nice looking shop there. I too wish I had that kind of room, especially head room like you have. When you say ebay cyclone, what does that mean? Also, whats the HP on the blower?

[William C Rogers]

Really nice looking shop there. I too wish I had that kind of room, especially head room like you have. When you say ebay cyclone, what does that mean? Also, whats the HP on the blower?

The "EBay" cyclone is the one a guy has been selling on EBay for several years. He makes two sizes and this is the larger one. It was less than $200 when I bought it. The blower is from a Jet 1900 two bagger I bought for $300 years ago. It has a 3hp motor and a 14" impeller. So the DC was my starting point. Couldn't really afford one of the commercial systems and went with the EBay cyclone, with expectations it would work, but not as well as some. I didn't do any calculation on pipe size etc. I'm more of test and see what happens. There are just too many variables to consider and in the end it just tells you it "should or shouldn't" work. Just researching here you can gather what has worked and what has not and usually why. The cyclone had a 6" inlet and a 7" outlet. Thr DC had a 8" inlet and a 7" X 5" rectangular outlet. So a 6" main and 7" exhaust matched up with the system. Before I hooked up the 7" exhaust pipe I did a test using the contents my dust deputy collected. I shined a work light at the exhaust and dumped about 3 quarts of fine dust into the system. I did not see any visable dust, therefore proceeded to exhaust outside, otherwise I would have used the Wynn filters. I'm definitely impressed with the performance of the cyclone.
I built this shop two years ago, but the first year no heat or electric as we were building the house. I installed hot water radiant heat in the floor and it was used last winter. Very glad I spent the money for that. I always wanted a ceiling in my shop and I was able to get the ceiling tiles from a empty Boarders Book building being redone. Also got 3 boxes of cross rails all for free. I had to buy the long rails, so I have about $100 in the ceiling. It really changes the looks.

[ian maybury]

Nice job William.

My DIY dust system build and install stands me roughly the same money (for a similarly sized shop), plus a little more because i went for a new fan and 4kW motor, and had to install a VFD to run it from our low amp (Irish) single phase supply. There's several others on the site here that have also built their own systems.

There's an album of my build pics here : http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones...ade/?g2_page=1 There's a series of build photo albums there (the Clear Vue forum from the Morgano days) from others that built systems to Bill Pentz's drawings which are here too: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/projects.cfm Bill's philosophy is very much that the DIY route makes it possible to get there for very moderate money.

It's a really important principle. Lots buy very marginal dust systems (with 1 1/2 or 2 HP fans - and then expect them to pull through ducting with predictable results) at high prices from the branded retail suppliers - when in fact it's possible by buying carefully and going DIY to build a 5HP premium performance system with a 15 or 16in BC centrifugal impeller and 6in or 160mm ducting that has the potential to take almost all of the hassle out of the dust issue for very little more. (or even less) It's not just about moving lots of air, big fans also have the pressure capability to deal much more effectively with the inevitable e.g. restrictive machine ports and the like that are not easily modified.

The US market may in detail be a little different, but some principles that helped keep my cost right down included:

1. DIY - take it steady. Doing the research means you end up understanding your system properly. Bill P's pages are a goldmine: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

2. Buy used where feasible. There seems to be quite a bit by way of suitable fans, cyclones and motors that come up used in the US. (unlike here in Ireland)

3. Don't buy ducting from branded retailers that apply huge mark ups. Spiral steel at trade rates from manufacturing (it's only a simple rolling and seaming machine that makes the ducting) suppliers costs only about $15/3m run for 6in dia if our prices translate to the US. (and the US is usually cheaper) Fittings are equally cheap. Retailers and easy access websites may mark up x4, and clip together Nordfab style ducting while a real luxury is similarly more expensive. PVC it seems can be bought right too.

4. Even if you don't fancy fabbing a cyclone most manufacturing ducting suppliers have fab operations where they build ducting, fittings and other stuff to order. You need to go armed with a drawing (see the Pentz link for a basis from which to prepare one) and to know exactly what you want (these are high output fab shops and not HVAC engineers - and they won't appreciate time wasting), but they typically bang cheap and cheerful sheet metal stuff out so well priced its unbelievable. (i got the cyclone body rolled very accurately from a heavier gauge of galvanised sheet steel than I could have handled and seamed to the upper cylinder (it creates a really neat stiffening hoop so that it's accurately circular which is important for cyclone performance), the spiral and the inner tube cut to size and built the rest of the cyclone myself) Spot pick the items to get made - to avoid rolling around on the floor with a big piece of sheet metal your'e not equipped to properly roll, or trying to cut with snips e.g an awkward spiral that a laser profiler will pop out in minutes....

5. Spot pick the stuff you buy new. I bought a fan and blast gates from Clear Vue, and new motor and VFD, and a couple of filter cartridges locally - basically because we have no used market in that sort of stuff.

Finally don't underestimate the work involved - but do be aware that even if you buy the dust collector that it's the ductwork install that is the heavy end of the labour….

inlet tube in cyclone top.jpg cyclone ramp_ test fit on blower inlet tube for marking of OD.jpg cyclone on floor 23-6-11.jpg cyclone + fan assy on floor 1-7-11.jpg workshop ducting etc 7-7-14.jpg ductwork in progress 1-9-11.jpg fan on floor 22-6-11.jpg fan in situ 31-10-11.jpg

[William C Rogers]

Nice job William.

My DIY dust system build and install stands me roughly the same money (for a similarly sized shop), plus a little more because i went for a new fan and 4kW motor, and had to install a VFD to run it from our low amp (Irish) single phase supply. There's several others on the site here that have also built their own systems.

There's an album of my build pics here : http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones...ade/?g2_page=1 There's a series of build photo albums there (the Clear Vue forum from the Morgano days) from others that built systems to Bill Pentz's drawings which are here too: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/projects.cfm Bill's philosophy is very much that the DIY route makes it possible to get there for very moderate money.

It's a really important principle. Lots buy very marginal dust systems (with 1 1/2 or 2 HP fans - and then expect them to pull through ducting with predictable results) at high prices from the branded retail suppliers - when in fact it's possible by buying carefully and going DIY to build a 5HP premium performance system with a 15 or 16in BC centrifugal impeller and 6in or 160mm ducting that has the potential to take almost all of the hassle out of the dust issue for very little more. (or even less) It's not just about moving lots of air, big fans also have the pressure capability to deal much more effectively with the inevitable e.g. restrictive machine ports and the like that are not easily modified.

The US market may in detail be a little different, but some principles that helped keep my cost right down included:

1. DIY - take it steady. Doing the research means you end up understanding your system properly. Bill P's pages are a goldmine: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

2. Buy used where feasible. There seems to be quite a bit by way of suitable fans, cyclones and motors that come up used in the US. (unlike here in Ireland)

3. Don't buy ducting from branded retailers that apply huge mark ups. Spiral steel at trade rates from manufacturing (it's only a simple rolling and seaming machine that makes the ducting) suppliers costs only about $15/3m run for 6in dia if our prices translate to the US. (and the US is usually cheaper) Fittings are equally cheap. Retailers and easy access websites may mark up x4, and clip together Nordfab style ducting while a real luxury is similarly more expensive. PVC it seems can be bought right too.

4. Even if you don't fancy fabbing a cyclone most manufacturing ducting suppliers have fab operations where they build ducting, fittings and other stuff to order. You need to go armed with a drawing (see the Pentz link for a basis from which to prepare one) and to know exactly what you want (these are high output fab shops and not HVAC engineers - and they won't appreciate time wasting), but they typically bang cheap and cheerful sheet metal stuff out so well priced its unbelievable. (i got the cyclone body rolled from galvanised sheet steel, the spiral and the inner tube cut to size and built the cyclone myself)

5. Spot pick the stuff you buy new. I bought a fan and blast gates from Clear Vue, and new motor and VFD, and a couple of filter cartridges locally - basically because we have no used market in that sort of stuff.

Finally don't underestimate the work involved - but do be aware that even if you buy the dust collector that it's the ductwork install that is the heavy end of the labour….

cyclone + fan assy on floor 1-7-11.jpg workshop ducting etc 7-7-14.jpg ductwork in progress 1-9-11.jpg fan on floor 22-6-11.jpg fan in situ 31-10-11.jpg

Ian, all good words of advice. I have looked at Bill P site. At one time I thought of building a cyclone, but believe me my skills are nowhere nears yours in this area. Very nice shop and DC system (photo gallery). I knew several years ago I would build a new shop. I had been using my Jet 1100 DC with Wynn filter and a Thien separator. The Thien works very well except when I used the Drum sander. So for my new shop I found a Jet 1900 twin bagger and bought the EBay cyclone, and two Wynn filters to replace Jet 1100, but still being a hose dragger. Seeing where many exhaust outside without filters as a option I could take advantage of I decided I have most of the equipment, so why not build a system. Since I was not buying a impeller/motor I didn't do any calculations, this is what I have and it will work or won't. I bought the cheapest duct work and fittings I could find 30ga. Many said it would collapse, but a few used it without problems. So I ran a test and found out I could using plywood rings and 30ga.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...t=#post2348247
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So my system evolved rather than being planned and exceeds my expectations.

[Julie Moriarty]

Looks like a pretty nice system, and a nice shop!

Your cyclone looks a lot like mine. I took a Delta drum collector and made it into a cyclone and the results looked much like your own. It never ceases to amaze me how well it works. I exhausted mine to the outside. Before the cyclone upgrade, the yard was full of chips and I'd have to rake them away. After the upgrade, there was no sign of anything.

When you titled the thread using "least expensive" I was expecting to see PVC ductwork. All the metal duct I've seen is pretty pricey.

[Jesse Busenitz]

One problem..... that shop is way too clean! Nice shop and DC looks great!

[ian maybury]

Glad to hear you got sorted Julie, i remember your asking questions. The trick with buying spiral ducting is to find a way to get it at trade prices from a manufacturing supplier. That's not so hard here (it definitely wasn't in the middle of a major recession), i'm not sure how it works in the US but have seen several report success. Cyclones really do work spectacularly well, except perhaps on very very fine dust which they struggle to separate out. No problem venting it outside in the right circumstances though.

Guess the message William is that there's lots of ways to get there and make stuff work. The key is get past the mindset that sees buying what's pushed by the brands as the only possible route. So called fact isn't always either. (i'd be wary of a 16in/5HP fan on light ducting though - they can get up to over 15in WG against a closed valve)

The one that's not such a good idea to my mind is to settle for a fundamentally underspecified system. Too small a fan for example for the ducting runs, or undersized ducting. There's some limits that are more or less absolute...

Next up Jesse is to get serious about the woodworking. So far the shop has been most of the project. Even the cabinet in the pic was to store hand tools....

[William C Rogers]

Looks like a pretty nice system, and a nice shop!

Your cyclone looks a lot like mine. I took a Delta drum collector and made it into a cyclone and the results looked much like your own. It never ceases to amaze me how well it works. I exhausted mine to the outside. Before the cyclone upgrade, the yard was full of chips and I'd have to rake them away. After the upgrade, there was no sign of anything.

When you titled the thread using "least expensive" I was expecting to see PVC ductwork. All the metal duct I've seen is pretty pricey.

Julie, first glad the Florida trip went well. Good luck finding your ideal place. When I first stood up the cyclone I actually recalled your cyclone build where you branded yours, cool. I may find a decal to put on there someday. The ductwork is all 30ga and as you know working with 30ga it requires extra installation effort. For pricing the 5' straights were $ 5.05 ea, elbows were $2.49 ea, and wyes were $10.98 ea. I think this may be less than PVC, not sure. I know it is less than 26ga. Anyway it works and doesn't look bad.