Track saw vs. track saw systems

[Kent A Bathurst]

I have used both a home made saw guide and a Festool track saw a lot for breaking down large sheets. There is zero advantage in using the Festool for simply breaking down sheets and I would not waste a lot of money buying any track system just for that. Both the home made and the Festool are used the same, make the mark, put down the guide on the mark and cut.

Chris, FYI, that is only one of the ways to use a Festool rail for breaking down sheet goods. Another way is to use the parallel guides. Another way is to use an MFT & rail for perfect 45 and 90 degree cuts.

No marks to make, very fast setup for 'the next cut' (after the initial-purchase calibration), no worry about drifting off the mark and running back and forth end-to-end readjusting clamps, integrated clamping beneath the work you are cutting, and you get multiple pieces that are exact same width with the parallel guides,....

Then there are all the sheet good breakdown cross cut options (with an MFT,...) for perfect 90 degree cuts without measuring and drawing lines,....

I don't use my Festool tracksaw in any way even remotely similar to how I used to use a homemade track jig.

OK - so I think the answer to my question comes down to this: Would I be using the track saw system as a replacement for a table saw, or for sheet goods breakdown?

If my predominant work is in sheet goods.......... then the "system" has advantages.

If construction out of sheet goods is only an occasional task, then I can afford the extra set up time Mark correctly notes.

Any problems with my summary analysis? I am trying to get my head around this topic, and welcome comments.

[Ken Kortge]

I'll add my $0.02 worth ...

I've used Eurekazone tracks for 7 years now, and they have completely changed my woodworking life.

Regarding home-made guides:
I have never been successful using a circular saw by hand. It always "walked" off the cut line as if it hated me. I even bought a brand new saw thinking that there was something wrong with the original one - no difference. I made the standard two-layer homemade cut guide and tried that, but the saw still wondered off to one side of the guide. You can imagine how frustrating that was. I've worked with others manhandling a sheet of plywood through a small table saw. I KNOW the cut was not as straight as it should have been, and I hated the sound and the smell of burning wood while the wood jammed into the blade. I went years avoiding working with plywood because of this. It was only when I discovered the Eurekazone track system in 2008 that I was able to cut plywood - and cut it very easily, accurately, and cleanly.

Regarding their "system":
Over the years I've purchased several accessories and have enjoyed using them. These include an earlier version of their multiform table, the right angle miter, the router system, the special clamp system that allows ripping narrow boards, and the repeaters that provide accurate and repeatable parallel cuts.

Comparing the tracks themselves:
Take a look at this picture to see the obvious difference between the track extrusion used by Festool (and most others) and the much more robust Eurkekazone track:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mbg/...Rails.jpg.html

I've read some say that the flexibility of the thinner tracks is a feature. Really? Why don't table saws use flexible tables then?

This picture also shows the Eurekazone track's unique dovetail grove feature that allows accessories to self-center - for amazing accuracy without have to adjust alignment or squareness each time.

I've thought about getting Eurekazone's saw edge guide to do parallel cuts, but given my history of problems with the homemade guide I chose to stick with the tracks. Its very tempting though.

Regarding cut quality:
With a table saw the blade rotates with the teeth hitting downward at the cut edge. The top of the cut is clean, but the bottom is where tearout can happen - unless you are using a good zero clearence insert. Most people I know do not use such an insert.

With a circular saw the blade rotates with the teeth hitting upward at the cut edge. The bottom of the cut is clean, but the top is where the tearout can happen. This is where the track saw base and track edge comes into play. The Eurekazone's saw base has a replaceable ($5) anti-chip insert and track has a replaceable (~$8) edge are custom cut for each saw and blade. They completely cover the top edges of the cut kerf on both sides so the track saw has a cut quality like that of the table saw with the zero clearance insert.

The Eurekazone base also has a replaceable anti-kickback fin that prevents kickback. Somewhere there is a video of Dino (the inventor of the system) twisting a saw during a cut trying to cause kickback - without any luck. I hope you table saw users keep the riving knife and/or anti-kickback pawls on - but many don't. I have friends who brag about yanking the guards off.

Regarding cut depth:
The Hitachi 7-1/4" saw used on track will almost - but not quite - cut clean through 2x dimensional lumber. It leaves a bit of wood somewhere between the thickness of paper and cereal box cardboard. I can easily cut it off with a knife - which is exactly what I do. Its not been a problem for me. I bought Eurekazone's special "Clamp System" (not their regular clamp), which allows me to rip full lengths on 2x4 or 2x6 lumber without a table saw. I've thought about getting the Makita saw with the bigger blade, but so for the 7-1/4 saw is doing me fine. Oh, and I also have a sliding miter saw for easy cross cuts.

Dust collection:
I use an "EZ-ready" Hitachi saw purchased from Eurekazone. If you go to their site you'll see what I'm talking about. It came with the base and a dust collection port added . They added a clear flexible plastic hood over the front base of the saw to help trap dust. Works well for me.

About using Routers with the track:
Just to be clear, Eurekazone has a pretty slick but simple router system that works with its tracks. Just like with the rest of the system - you provide your own router - or you can buy an "EZ-ready router" if you wish to. I went with an extra plunge base for use with my Bosch 1617 router.

I guess that was more than $0.02 worth. Finding the track saw was as important to me as finding the Kreg Jig. Life changing for me.

[Scott DelPorte]

Hi Kent, I think your reasoning is sound. I have a track saw that I use for breaking down sheet goods so I can use a table saw. I also sometimes use it to square up the end of a large glue up.

Both can be done using other methods without a "system", so it really comes down to (at least for me) a trade off between owning yet one more contraption in my shop and the convenience of making these two types of cuts quickly. Right now the track saw is earning its keep.

[Bryan Cramer]

I too have the EZ system and I do agree with the above comments. I really like the system and only use it to cut plywood. If you are going with a guide system that uses a circular saw then the best saw to get is this Dewalt with a blade paralleling adjustment. The rear screw turns to adjust the blade like a table saw trunion. This saw has very good bearings and lots of power. I have seen a few framing crews that use this saw instead of worm drive saws. There is also an 8 1/4" model.

[Allan Speers]

The Eurekazone base also has a replaceable anti-kickback fin that prevents kickback. Somewhere there is a video of Dino (the inventor of the system) twisting a saw during a cut trying to cause kickback - without any luck. I hope you table saw users keep the riving knife and/or anti-kickback pawls on - but many don't. I have friends who brag about yanking the guards off.

Ken, I agree wholeheartedly with everything else you wrote, but I have to make a negative comment about the "fin." IMO is almost worthless. I received two of them when they first came out, installed one, and was stunned to find that it (literally) doesn't extend into the wood, when cutting on the track! All I can figure is that it's supposed to help when cutting freehand, with the other insert.

I promptly made my own fin, out of a piece of aluminum "L" channel, and it works great.

Now I'm planning to make an actual riving knife: My idea is to cut back the blade guard, and attach a splitter to the end of it. This would then follow the angle of the blade (you cannot make a bevel cut with the fin) and because of the guard's spring, it would even allow for plunge cuts, which I occasionally do via my EZ-ONE table's bridge system.

My new Makita 10" saw has a brake, so I'm not worried about losing the actual blade guard to much. I wouldn't do this on a brake-less saw, though.

--------------

You also mentioned that you've considered the "edge guide" by which I assume you mean the UEG.

I have one, and have never used it. I thought it would be a great way to quickly make 3-4 identical cuts. However, what they don't tell you is that you have to swap inserts in your base to use the UEG. You can't just take it off your track, and attach the UEG. Well, have you ever tried removing that bloody insert? It's insanely difficult. Then attaching the UEG is harder than you'd expect, as the four bolts flop around independently. (This can be improved with some work & hard thinking) And last, the thing won't stay square, no matter how well you align it. I beefed mine up by bolting on some aluminum channel to the back end, across the two arms, but it should have been designed that way in the first place.

Anyway, the only way I'd ever use the UEG is if I had a saw & base dedicated to it. For that, one would have to rip a LOT of 8' plywood. For the typical hobbyist, making 3, 4, 5 cuts, it's much faster to just mark your line and use the track.

[Michael Cole]

I appreciate all the information.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I also sometimes use it to square up the end of a large glue up.

Yeah - I can definitely see that............

[Warren Wilson]

I have used shop-built tracks with circular saws in a couple of iterations and the best seems to have been a fine-toothed DeWalt 6.5 inch cordless riding along a two-layered track. I bought a DeWalt track saw and I prefer it to any of its shop-made predecessors.

1. The clamps on my shop made tracks always seemed to want to get in the way. Not a problem with the track saw. (I suppose I could have put a bigger effort into creating a clamping system similar to that of store-bought tracks).

2. An aluminum track is considerably less influenced by humidity than a plywood track.

3. The quality of cut is superior. It is, in fact, superior to that obtained on my table saw -- a big point in favor of those of us who do not have sliders.

4. (This was the deal-maker for me) The bevel cuts available from the track saw are clean, consistent and precise. I actually bought the track saw when building a corner cabinet and getting frustrated by both my table saw and my home-made track system. Since getting the track saw I have used the ability to rip long perfect bevels often: maybe just because I can.

If anyone objects to the notion of buying an expensive tool just to complete one project, please say it quietly enough that my wife cannot hear.

[Jim Dwight]

Kent,

I don't accept that you need to use sheet goods a lot to get good use out of a track saw. The last project I used mine on was all solid wood (softwood, my wife wanted pickled pine finish). I used the track saw to cut a straight edge on each board prior to glueup (I needed 16 inch wide pieces). I used the track saw to cut to final width and length. This project had no fancy edges and I used my router table to rabbet for the back but I could have hunted around and possibly found my router setup for the track and used that too.

I don't think you will get good use out of a track saw if you build consistently little things. It is possible to cut small pieces with a track saw but it is a bit of a pain. Table saw, CMS and RAS work better. The track saw shines with larger pieces of material. They are a pain to put through a table saw although a lot less so if you have infeed and outfeed support (or a slider). With a track saw, it is easy to support the workpiece and make the cut. I have used mine several times to trim doors. I beveled one with it. I needed almost my full depth of cut, however. I could have done it with a circular saw and guide but the cut would have been rougher and I would have had to concentrate on it more.

My rule of thumb is track saw for big pieces, other tools for little pieces. I made a board for a project my wife wants to make, for instance, yesterday. It is about 14 high and 24 wide. I could have used the track saw but it was easier to true up on the table saw. Once I get my workbench done with a crosscut jig on it, however, it would have been about as easy for the track saw to do. So it matters some how well set up you are with other tools. I nice slider table saw and no need for something at other locations and maybe you don't need a track saw. Nice track saw setup complete with MFT or better bench, maybe you don't need a table saw.

[George Bokros]

I too have the EZ system and I do agree with the above comments. I really like the system and only use it to cut plywood. If you are going with a guide system that uses a circular saw then the best saw to get is this Dewalt with a blade paralleling adjustment. The rear screw turns to adjust the blade like a table saw trunion. This saw has very good bearings and lots of power. I have seen a few framing crews that use this saw instead of worm drive saws. There is also an 8 1/4" model.

Brian will the 7 1/4" saw you recommend cut through two sheets of ply with the EZ tracksaw track? The DW 575 will but it does not have the blade parallel adjustment feature.

[Mike Goetzke]

I stumbled on Eurekazone (EZ) saw track many years ago. I bought it because one day I was ripping a sheet of ply on my Uni and stalled it when I ever so slightly skewed the sheet (even with using roller stands). I loved the saw track so much after the initial purchase I eventually added about everything they offered over the next several years. I even made my own PBB (power-bench-bridge) and later modified it into an EZ-One bench. After building cabinets for our kitchen I decided sell my TS and try using a track saw only. After several months I missed my TS and got lucky and found a 1950 Uni locally and fully restored it. For sheet goods I exclusively use my track saw system. The ends of ply are usually not square but the long ends are very straight and parallel to each other. I use a Universal Edge Guide (UEG) from EZ that I have my Makita 18V cordless saw attached to to quickly and precisely rip sheets of ply to size. I then use the EZ Square or Cabinet Maker to perform X-cuts. I almost no longer use the bulky EZ-One bench for breaking down ply.

Mike

[Bill McNiel]

Michael,
Please check your Purchase Agreement for the Domino, I believe you will find, in the very fine print on the reverse side, that you are now required/obligated to purchase only Festool products or have the existing warranty voided and your personal well being put at risk.

My personal experience is that once you "buy" into the Festool system you will continue to build upon it. This is expensive but rewarding in the long run. I have designed, built, used many saw guidance elements over the years and IMHO the Festool track and saws are the best I've experienced.

[mark mcfarlane]

OK - so I think the answer to my question comes down to this: Would I be using the track saw system as a replacement for a table saw, or for sheet goods breakdown?

If my predominant work is in sheet goods.......... then the "system" has advantages.

If construction out of sheet goods is only an occasional task, then I can afford the extra set up time Mark correctly notes.

Any problems with my summary analysis? I am trying to get my head around this topic, and welcome comments.

Stated slightly differently,...

Assuming you are working in a shop, not a job site...

If you have something large and unwieldily to cut, and you want a fast accurate cut, and you don't already have a slider with an 8' rip and crosscut capability, a tracksaw is awfully handy, easy to setup, and accurate.

My old workflow was to cut down sheet goods to approximate size, then finalize the size on a table saw. With a good tracksaw you can simply skip the 2-cut approach and go right to finished size, with minimal or no tearout. The first cut on a full sheet is better for me on a tracksaw compared to a non-sliding table saw 'cause I always had a problem manhandling that heavy a sheet through the blade.

FWIW, I've built 2 bookcases and a small table out of red oak using only a TS55 and MFT rig. It was a 'different' experience from using a table saw, but during these 3 builds my workflow and confidence has improved with the track system to where I think I can could work at a similar speed to using a table saw, and with similar accuracy. Note that an MFT setup provides a lot more than just a 'track saw', with a miter system, fence, fence stops, efficient clamping,...

Although I still see a slider in my future, if I can't find the space for one I am confident I can make excellent furniture fairly efficiently using only a tracksaw. Not exactly neanderthal,...

So my summary: the tracksaw is awesome for large, bulky work, but can also be used for other smaller stuff.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

So, what are the benefits of say the Dewalt or the Festool track saws?

1. They can plunge cut. This can be really nice at times, but is not really needed. I like it so that I can have the saw sitting more on the wood than off the wood before I start the cut (the the track won't be as likely to bend).
2. Great dust collection built in.
3. Great nice cut. No, wait, this probably has more to do with the blade. Just drop in an appropriate blade into your circular saw, and it will make a huge difference.
4. When you make your cut, you cut through the rubber edge so that you know right where the blade will cut. You probably have this with every system.

You get the idea.

[Jim Dwight]

So, what are the benefits of say the Dewalt or the Festool track saws?

1. They can plunge cut. This can be really nice at times, but is not really needed. I like it so that I can have the saw sitting more on the wood than off the wood before I start the cut (the the track won't be as likely to bend).
2. Great dust collection built in.
3. Great nice cut. No, wait, this probably has more to do with the blade. Just drop in an appropriate blade into your circular saw, and it will make a huge difference.
4. When you make your cut, you cut through the rubber edge so that you know right where the blade will cut. You probably have this with every system.

You get the idea.

Much greater depth of cut. Much better dust collection. Lighter less bulky tracks. It's admittedly a small thing but better blade attachment/easier blade changes. The DeWalt is sometimes faulted for this but I took mine off for cleaning over the weekend (was thinking of replacing but it was sharp, just dirty). It's a bit different but easier than any circular saw I've used. There is an additional step to plunge the blade and lock it down so you can get to the screw. The advantages I see is a better attachment (slotted so it doesn't rotate with a nicely machined washer), tool carried on the saw (allen wrench in handle), and lock button is on top where it is easily accessed. I've seen the comments from others citing same cut quality for circular saws, I haven't see that. But I believe the build quality of the track saws is just better than the vast majority of circular saws. It is not reasonable to think you can get a circular saw for ~$100 that is equal to a track saw at ~$300 or more.