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Thread: Where, how & how much for hand tools

  1. #16
    The title is misleading, I twice passed over a very interesting post. I'm retired tradesman, so tools are part of my life. This has given me a history with hand tools, I know how quick a brace and bit can drill wood or a handsaw cut a 2x4. Because of that I have too many handsaws needing sharpening, and a collection of braces, chuckle. It's also left me with a hunger for some fine tools I could never have afforded when they were new. These sites have also educated me which ones are the truly fine tools.

    Having been retired now for a year and a half, a couple of lessons were soon learned,the process is more important than the product and it's great not having a boss.

    On using hand tools, you can never get them too sharp, the most important dollar spent is on sharpening equipment. Sharp trumps practice, by a mile.

    Buying used hand tools gets to be little more than getting raw material for that hobby of restoring old things. ouch, truth hurts.

    My dream is a shop all set up and ready to go. I better get back to modifying that 50 year old shop built metal shaper.

    Ray

  2. #17
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    Sharp + practice

    For kicks I invited four of my friends to try paring thin slices of white ash with a 36mm paring chisel. I showed them how, then let them try, then showed them how, then they tried again….all of them gained much respect for woodworking.

    It does become obvious very quickly why 'sharp' matters so much those those who hang around this board.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    ... The guy who started me in woodworking still tries to get me to buy more machines. He complains that he just does not have good enough hand eye coordination to use hand tools, as James mentions there are real skills one needs to learn to be able to utilize hand tools properly. Sharpening the many shapes and bevels in the blades we use can become an ongoing obsession that we never master but struggle to achieve enough familiarity of to maintain our various cutting surfaces in a serviceable form. I believe many posters here will agree that learning to use some collection of sharpening devices is A if not THE key to hand tool woodworking.
    Hand eye coordination develops from repetition. It needs to be used to get better.

    Same with sharpening. As more of my blades get worked, I find it is taking less work to get them sharp. It isn't the medium used. It is the experience and not wasting time with unproductive motions.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #19
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    I have a TS because long rips in hardwood are not my idea of a good time. I have a jointer because I thought I needed one - and at the time I bought it, I did. Same with the planer, the use of which required some minimal dust collection. I've got some Festool sanders and vacuum because I can't plane everything yet. With all that said, I prefer hand tools. Why you ask? Well, I'll tell you.

    Working wood, for me, is about the journey as much as it is about the result (which is what my wife is interested in.) I just decided that I could not really call myself a woodworker unless I could saw to a line by hand, smooth out and true up a board by hand and hand cut the joinery. Along the way, I've learned a lot about wood. I finally learned how to sharpen (well, at least straight edged stuff.) As for the tools, I quickly bought new because I wanted any problems to be user issues, not tool issues. I've had more issues than I would like but now I can get a board flat and true by hand.

    I've bought a mixture of new and vintage along the way. I buy vintage that already works because I prefer using the tool rather than trying to make it work. Just my preference.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    Personal discalimers
    I constantly experiment with hand tools in an attempt to eliminate any reliance I may have on machines or electricity. I am not a totally hand tool woodworker, as much as I might prefer to be. I do a good amount of construction work and landscaping that I feel can not be done in a timely fashion without some sort of machine. I have very nice Scythes, which for me have just about eliminated any need I have for weed eaters, but those hand tools are not likely to replace my Zero turn mower for mowing 6-8 acres of grass and weeds. I use a track saw for construction work on a regular basis because I often have large quantities of sheet goods to process and lots of lumber to cut to length. I eliminated my table saw years ago and I am in the process of eliminating my electric compound miter saw. I mention these, slightly off topic tools as some of the tools I use for landscaping and construction also get used for woodworking. The point here is sometimes people "need" tools for work that is not strictly speaking woodworking that once purchased may do double duty. I maintain buildings and 12 acres of property with a large array of tools, all of which have to be maintained, sharpened...These "other" tools may skew my particular tool collection vs the average woodworker so I am just mentioning this up front. I think it is wise of each individual poster to realize that we all have our own individual, unique environment that we work in which will certainly skew our tool collection.
    Hey Mike,

    I don't have time to read this excellent thread right now, I will later, but your disclaimer is beyond my little puney ones-my hat is off to you, sir!
    David
    Confidence: That feeling you get before fully understanding a situation (Anonymous)

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Hand eye coordination develops from repetition. It needs to be used to get better.

    Same with sharpening. As more of my blades get worked, I find it is taking less work to get them sharp. It isn't the medium used. It is the experience and not wasting time with unproductive motions.

    jtk
    LOML Bought a set of the cheap Chinese micro planes to let her students play around with when making models to cast. She sharpened the blade for 15 minutes on some decent stones. After I checked it out, I felt it was impossibly dull for even a tiny plane and easy wood (Basswood). It took me 10 minutes to flatten the back, Create a proper bevel, and hone polish to sharp. It still was lousy steel and far from a fine instrument. But our practice and our mistakes are what allow us to now quickly get things sharp. No knock on my wife as she is great with her silver smithing, but I can teach something about sharp. She can saw with a jeweler's saw like no one's business. Makes me look like a ham handed buffoon.
    Shawn

    "no trees were harmed in the creation of this message, however some electrons were temporarily inconvenienced."

    "I resent having to use my brain to do your thinking"

  7. #22
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    Jim I believe I understand your point about developing the muscle memory to do the work. Isn't it also a valid point that if someone who is new and not familiar with specific sharpening mediums tries to establish a bevel on a 1/2 thick x 2 1/2 wide HSS wooden plane blade with a black Arkansas stone he is likely to meet with less success than if he starts with a coarse grinder? I ask this question because I am an example, case in point, of exactly this sort of issue. I started trying to sharpen dull knives, when I was younger, with a hard Arkansas stone, not knowing the difference between a finishing and coarse stone. It took me a while more recently to realize that a Tormek grinder is much slower at grinding entire bevels on large bevel up plane blades than a regular grinder or belt sander with a coarse stone/belt/wheel. I simply over estimated the mediums ability. The point being that it may be hard for a new, intermediate or even advance woodworker to predict how fast a particular medium will work for a given task until they use it a while.

    On the other hand I am aware when starting out, just working and learning to feel how the medium works regardless of the actual progress being made helps.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 09-02-2015 at 3:55 AM.

  8. #23
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    Since the subject is where, how, how much I'll give you my approach. As a beginner, I wanted to take the quality of the tool out of the equation. Bench plane for example. My first purchase was a Lie Nielsen #4. I was reasonably confident, that through the learning process, if the tool wasn't working, it was my technique or set up. Over time I got to be pretty good with it. I sold it. Yep, sold it. Bought a flea market Stanley, tuned it up, and still enjoy it.

    Another approach example. I'm in the beginning stages of building a roubo bench. It calls for drawboring the joints. All the recommendations call for drawbore pins...a specialty tool I don't foresee using much myself after the build. Fine, I purchased a pair from Lie Nielson, will use them for about 26 pins. Then I'll likely sell them for 60-70%. I figure it'll cost me about a buck a pin.
    My point is that there are a lot of ways to go about getting the where, how, how much in tools.

  9. #24
    My job has migrated over the last few years to less and less hands on and more desk and analysis work. I grew up on a farm and working with my hands. We built and did just about everything ourselves from building construction to metal fabrication. There are days I really miss that work and scratch the itch with the woodshop. I started out with a table saw, planer, and jointer, I start with roughsawn materials so to be efficient with my time in the shop I usually rough down dimensions on the power tools. I am slowly accumulating hand tools, started with few hand planes and am slowly building the arsenal.

    I use vintage tools right now and most likely will stay that way for another year. I really enjoy the variety of information I get on this site from refurbishing to reviews of newer tools. As some have already stated, sharpening really seems to be a major necessity of hand tools. Building my own tools really appeals to me, something about the self satisfaction of building or refurbishing something to a usable state and putting it to work. Sometimes I guess more satisfaction from properly using a tool than the end result of the tool operation itself (if this makes sense).

    Maybe some of the other folks in the low 30's and younger crowd have this experience as well, but people are surprised when someone my age has a woodworking hobby, knows how to use the tools, and even more surprised that I use hand tools. Also enjoy the look my wife gives me in Sunday school class when I roll up my sleeves and she sees the bare patches on my arm.

    Bob

  10. #25
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    I think, once we get started with hand tools, it just plain gets into our blood.
    Yes safety was a factor for me, also the noise, but what it came down to really was,
    I just love fettling these tools and restoring them for use. Got the bug real bad.
    I think you folks are saying the same thing.
    You never get the answer if you don't ask the question.

    Joe

  11. #26
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    The scope of this subject is very large. A persons level of experience is important here. My view is this. If you are new to woodworking don't start with a plane and really don't even attempt to rehab one and get it to work without help. Buy one from someone who knows the tool and will get it to you ready to go including sharp. The best of the new ones will work out if the box but are usually not sharp enough for an experienced woodworker. If you are new pick out something to build that is easy and useful that can be built with Borg wood has no complex joinery, can be completed with saw cuts a hammer and some nails, ie. Step stool, saw horse, saw bench. Buy yourself or obtain a full size inexpensive hard point saw some kind of square a hammer and some nails. Give it a try and you will soon know if you have the bug. If you choose to start out in the middle with precision tools that need preparing to work be sure to buy some razor blades to slash your wrists with after you become totally frustrated. If you are more experienced find someone that works above your level to mentor you. Then proceed at your own risk, the road ahead is slippery and very steep.
    Jim

  12. #27
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    Isn't it also a valid point that if someone who is new and not familiar with specific sharpening mediums tries to establish a bevel on a 1/2 thick x 2 1/2 wide HSS wooden plane blade with a black Arkansas stone he is likely to meet with less success than if he starts with a coarse grinder?
    Yes. The same as trying to sharpen a blade with a nicked edge. Start with the 1000 (grinder or other coarse stone), not the 8000 (or hard Arkansas) to remove the damage.

    After making our mistakes (our learning curves) we find an easier or more efficient way.

    Note: In another post my comment about sharpening mentioned the medium not being the important aspect of sharpening. My meaning is it doesn't matter if one is using; scary sharp with paper abrasives, diamond plates, oilstones, water stones or various other methods to get to a sharp edge. They all can be made to work.

    It is important to have a range of sharpening medium from coarse to fine. It can be just a grinder and a fine stone. Though that is more work than most would care to do. Some like a two stone set up. Others will opt for a three or four stone set up. There isn't a single ultimate best way for every person for every piece of metal that needs to have a sharp edge.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 09-02-2015 at 10:38 AM. Reason: Note: and everything following
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #28
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    Thanks for clarifying Jim, I misunderstood. It seems the more experienced we get the more options we find. I know it can get confusing for those who are new to figuring out what hand tools they need and what they need to maintain them. I like the idea of a grinder and fine stone. I think going from the grinder to one stone works best if you don't go to too fine a grit. Recently I have been using a grinder with two wheels and a medium and fine grit Spyderco. The coarse grit grinder wheel is good for grinding bevels and the fine grinder wheel is good for removing nics and the two stones The two stones work well to clean up afte the grinder.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 09-03-2015 at 10:12 PM.

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