Sharpening idea that has not been discussed here! new breed of oil stones...

[george wilson]

"A mixture of water and oil": Being also a machinist,I'd comment here that this means the use of water soluble cutting oil. An entirely different thing from ordinary oil. It just rinses away.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi Matthew

From memory (passing conversations a few years ago now), Philip Marcou has long used oil (I think kero) on King waterstones. I recall thinking that he was crazy when he mentioned this, and was not inclined to test it out. Maybe not so crazy ...?

You like the Sigma 1200? I used it after the Shapton 1000, and returned to the Shapton, which cuts faster. It may be the difference between a 1000 and 1200.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,


I do like the sigma, but IMO it's not competing with the Shapton 1k
for the same spot. The Shapton is an aggressive 1k, I agree it's the best. If I wanted a more
relaxed smooth and consistent stone, the chosera800 is it, and about the same as the Shapton in speed. The
sigma on the other hand is much finer cutting, and it cuts very cleanly. If I use a Shapton I'd like a another stone between it and a a 8-10k, but the sigma makes the jump to a 10k no problem. You could even use the sigma as a single stone setup if your good with a strop ( I would use 1-3micron diamond paste on the strop in that case). So really not comparable with a 1k Shapton, if anyone reading this is looking for a fast 1k, the Shapton is that kind if stone.

[Pat Barry]

Using oil on a ceramic stone didn't sound like a good idea off hand but there wasn't much resistance to the idea expressed previously. I did a search and found this webpage which addresses the subject. Not sure how it ruins the stone.

Edit - here is a link to the manufacturer's notes about the Sigma Select stone

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks for the link Pat. Fine tools also say "never leave Japanese water stones permenantly in water". But we know many stones are fine in water long term, as I said before, they aim to cover their tosh. The sigma website says nothing about it harming the stone

[william watts]

Using oil on a ceramic stone didn't sound like a good idea off hand but there wasn't much resistance to the idea expressed previously. I did a search and found this webpage which addresses the subject. Not sure how it ruins the stone.

Edit - here is a link to the manufacturer's notes about the Sigma Select stone

I use water stones and a jig with a wheel as guide to sharpen. The wheel started making squeaking sounds, so I put a drop of oil on the axel, no more than a drop. Never the less some worked its way on to the wheel and spread to the stone where the honing action spread a very even thin layer of oil into the stone. The stone never cut again tried cleaning with no success. Finally just threw the stone away. Now I keep any oil far away from my sharpening station and just put up with that squeaking wheel.

Whats the reason anyone would want to use oil on a water stone?

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi William, thanks for chiming in. I think it's important to mention which stone is was, because there are many many different type nowdays. without knowing which stone it was the comment is left unhelpful.

I have no doubts a shapton or a chosera would respond poorly. the sigma 1.2 works just as well with oil as it did with water however it is still absorbing oil and not quite as splash and go as I'd like. I might boil it with some soap and salt and see if it goes back to working well with water. at the moment it has enough oil in it that water will just sit on the surface and glide off. truth is a fine india of good arkensas stone are just as good as water stones are so there is no real need for the conversion... but it is interesting.

[Reinis Kanders]

I like the last line in that link:
"We hope to spread Waterstone as a Samurai spirit to everyone around the world."

I am no Samurai, but I think I will try it with oil. I just ordered TFJ sigma package since I actually needed some Atoma stones for flattening my oilstones.
When they come I will try the oil on the waterstone since I do not have space to mess with water, winter is coming, and I am intrigued by waterstones

Using oil on a ceramic stone didn't sound like a good idea off hand but there wasn't much resistance to the idea expressed previously. I did a search and found this webpage which addresses the subject. Not sure how it ruins the stone.

Edit - here is a link to the manufacturer's notes about the Sigma Select stone

[Matthew N. Masail]

Reinis I Imagin the ceramic 6k and 13k in the special set would work well, as they don't absorb nearly as much as the 1.2k does. Stu also mentions they are immune to most household chemicals and boiling and freezing and so... I don't think you could ruin them. however please experiment carefully, and use only mineral oil, no drying oils or WD-40 that might turn sticky over time. all the success stories so far report using mineral oil like baby oil. perhaps also send Stu a message about it, I would hate for it to turn out negatively for you! and of course.... please update with you results! I found the 6k sigma ceramic loads more than I liked and was a little sticky to use... oil might solve both of those issues tough!

[Reinis Kanders]

Thanks for the advice. I ordered 16 oz bottle of Norton honing oil to soak it in. Do you think that would be ok, or should I stick with the mineral oil?
Once the stones come I will give an update. I normally use WD40 on my washita and arkansas stones, but I always wipe them off after use so far no stickiness. Also simple green cleans surface oil pretty well.

Reinis I Imagin the ceramic 6k and 13k in the special set would work well, as they don't absorb nearly as much as the 1.2k does. Stu also mentions they are immune to most household chemicals and boiling and freezing and so... I don't think you could ruin them. however please experiment carefully, and use only mineral oil, no drying oils or WD-40 that might turn sticky over time. all the success stories so far report using mineral oil like baby oil. perhaps also send Stu a message about it, I would hate for it to turn out negatively for you! and of course.... please update with you results! I found the 6k sigma ceramic loads more than I liked and was a little sticky to use... oil might solve both of those issues tough!

[Allan Speers]

Using oil on a ceramic stone didn't sound like a good idea off hand but there wasn't much resistance to the idea expressed previously. I did a search and found this webpage which addresses the subject. Not sure how it ruins the stone.

Edit - here is a link to the manufacturer's notes about the Sigma Select stone

I'll take a guess:


When you use a ceramic stone, there must be some place for the swarth to go, otherwise it would raise your blade slightly off the stone. With water, the swarth can go down into the stone's pores slightly. (until you rinse it.) Oil is thick and thus probably cloggs the pores, giving the swarth nowhere to go. Most oils will eventually harden, making things even worse. In fact, semi-hardened oil is very sticky, so the cut steel partical probably stick to it, creating a non-flat surface.

I am just guessing, but I'd put good money on this being correct.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks for the advice. I ordered 16 oz bottle of Norton honing oil to soak it in. Do you think that would be ok, or should I stick with the mineral oil?
Once the stones come I will give an update. I normally use WD40 on my washita and arkansas stones, but I always wipe them off after use so far no stickiness. Also simple green cleans surface oil pretty well.

The thing with water stones is that they are pores so whatever you put on them wil stay in them at least a little in the top layer even if you wipe them off. For that reason I'd only use something that I know won't turn sticky or harden. I have no clue what's in Norton's honing oil but WD-40 mightget sticky. I would stick wth mineral oil until you can verify the norton stuff. Purely guessing the norton oil might be fine.

I have a old norton medium India that dosent cut well at all even after lapping, and it smells strongly like some kind of gasoline, I suspect that might be the issue but I'll have to manage to truly clean it in order to know. A new India is like 20$ so...

[Tony Zaffuto]

IIRC from a prior discussion here, the Nortion is a more refined mineral oil (whatever more refined means!). I would suggest looking up the flash point of mineral oil, and heating the oil about 10% below the flash point, and then soaking the stone in it. The porosity will draw the heated oil deeper.

[william watts]

Hi William, thanks for chiming in. I think it's important to mention which stone is was, because there are many many different type nowdays. without knowing which stone it was the comment is left unhelpful.

I have no doubts a shapton or a chosera would respond poorly. the sigma 1.2 works just as well with oil as it did with water however it is still absorbing oil and not quite as splash and go as I'd like. I might boil it with some soap and salt and see if it goes back to working well with water. at the moment it has enough oil in it that water will just sit on the surface and glide off. truth is a fine india of good arkensas stone are just as good as water stones are so there is no real need for the conversion... but it is interesting.

I know the stone was not expensive and was ordered from one of the major on-line retailers several years ago, also I have never owned a stone finer than 8k grit. I am not fond of sharpening and put it off as long as possible. Seem to be people here that really enjoy it.