Real cost of hand tool woodworking

[Frederick Skelly]

I think that is partially due to the format we're working with. It's hard to show a skill online, best you can do is show photos of the skills results or videos of work in process. Both of which are not perfect formats for showing skills, but often times they do get you part of the way there.

the tools are fun to talk about, and the skills often are a product of thousands of hours in the workshop. Incredibly important, but not as exciting of a conversation.

Good point, Brian. I hadn't considered that before.
Fred

[Joe A Faulkner]

I've never considered wood working an expensive hobby, primarily because I've built so much cabinetry and furniture for the house over the past three decades. I remember spending $600 on a compound, sliding miter saw a few years back that I used to trim out a room edition on our house and to build a large, built-in pantry. The pantry alone would have retailed for over $1,500 even though it had less than $400 worth of lumber and hardware in it. This past year my son built a nice cherry bookcase that he will likely have for the rest of his life. The lumber cost was $100. A similar shelf retails for around $500 from one "made to order" builder on the internet. Without the investment in the tools and the skills to make these items, I'm not sure that my family would have the types of furnishings that we have.

There was a time when I certainly had some discretionary time to make things, and little or no discretionary funds to spend, so investing in tools and quality lumber allowed us to have an increased quality of furnishings at a reduced cash outlay. Of course it helped that I enjoyed making the projects. Practical, every day items like beds, book shelves, picture frames, cabinets, chests and tables resulted in most of my woodworking tools paying for themselves. Like many, they were accumulated slowly over the years which makes it feel much more affordable than buying it all at once.

[Christian Thompson]

Hi Derek,

You have many valid points. However, if we look at the traditional woodworking scene, the imbalance dominantly favors those who advocate fancy, expensive and new (and newer) products. These people are influential not only to beginners but also to many seasoned woodworkers (followers or whatever they should be called). When you have a master in XXX say you can cut XXX better, easy, cleaner and whatnot with this $300 XXX, those who do not possess the skill would think that's what they need. I am not saying higher priced tools are necessarily not worth their prices (prices are as good as people are willing to pay); I am saying if someone hasn't acquired the skill to cut plumb or chisel to the line, no fancy saws or chisels in the world will get them the airtight dovetails or tenons.

The emphasis, I believe, should be on techniques and skills and not tools. When I open a magazine page, all I see is the newest, most stylish and brand name planes,, chisels, etc. (and needless to say, a few pages down or up, one can see the color ads on those new tools or an editor's "review" about how nice the new saw or marking tool or plane feels great in your hand).

This is not to say we should avoid premium tools and products; I think we should support them as long as those of us who can afford them and who admire their high standards. But in the last ten years, many seem to have been worshiping quality tools as being the same as quality skill & work. They aren't.

Simon

I agree with what you are saying about the emphasis being on skills. I think someone already used a golf analogy on this thread, but I had a golf instructor say to never buy new / fancy equipment in order to get better. Just get clubs that fits and spend your money on practice, lessons, playing, etc... Then he drove home the point by saying a pro golfer could wipe the floor with us all with a set of 1970s women's clubs .

That being said, I really haven't felt like any of the big name woodworking instructors have tried to sell me much (other than content and instruction). Most everything I've seen has suggested getting good quality tools vs. recommending any particular brand. It seems like all of them have at least one "how to restore an old plane" instruction video. Maybe I've just filtered the rest out. I agree with getting started inexpensively, but there is something to be said about not wasting too much money on junk.

[Jim Koepke]

However, if we look at the traditional woodworking scene, the imbalance dominantly favors those who advocate fancy, expensive and new (and newer) products.

I think with a lot of programs it comes down to who ever pays to for the program production gets to have their tools in front of the camera.

On the Woodwright's shop new tools are a rarity. There is another show I see at times that seems little more than a long commercial for a particular brand.

Tim Allen had a comedy show that had part of the "comic" set up was the program within the program relationship with a tool company.

There is one "woodworking educator" who has his own brand of tools and has taken some heat from folks for constantly trying to push his tools on people.

jtk

[Brian Thornock]

Actually, it's much more expensive than the OP stated. The real scenario goes like this:

- Thinking of hand planes
- Find Brese, Holtey, or similar planes
- Decide one must have, but they are too expensive
- Decide to build
- Buy materials for building a single infill
- Buy metal cutting bandsaw to help with tedious hack sawing
- Buy metal lathe for turning thumb screws
- Need more precision, buy milling machine
- Finally build a nice infill
- Flatten board

Note that the above was not exactly how it played out for me, but not all that far from. Because of building 3 infill shoulder planes, I went for the bandsaw, then got a lathe and milling machine through serendipity, and now am enjoying turning out 5-10 infills a year just because I can

[James Pallas]

Brian You made me choke on my water. Not just a slippery slope but black ice for you! Be careful it doesn't sound like you've hit dry pavement yet.
Jim

[Brian Thornock]

I was under the impression there was no pavement. I have built something like 10 since the beginning of the year and my "want to build" list is at least another 12...

[Prashun Patel]

I've never heard anyone say (for long) hand tools are cheaper than power tools.

It's easily as expensive as power tool woodworking.

The only valid reasons I've heard are:
- Enjoyment or philosophy
- Reduction of noise and dust
- Safety
- Space

[Warren Mickley]

I've never heard anyone say (for long) hand tools are cheaper than power tools.

It's easily as expensive as power tool woodworking.

The only valid reasons I've heard are:
- Enjoyment or philosophy
- Reduction of noise and dust
- Safety
- Space

I have been saying that hand tools are cheaper for forty years. I implied it earlier in this thread. Hand tools are much much cheaper. Five bench planes: $104. Two hand saws: $7. Four back saws: $30. Bench chisels: $82. Frankly, if you want to do fine work, you end up buying hand tools anyway.

[Daniel Rode]

In my experience, hand tools are MUCH less expensive. I could buy every hand tool on my wish list and not reach the cost of a table saw. I think Warren is dead on that any fine work will require at least some hand tools anyway.

I owned a couple planes, chisels and hand saws when I was a power tool woodworker. I couldn't get them to work very well, but I know I needed them.

[Kees Heiden]

Agree again. I've been hoarding a bunch of tools for a couple of years, because they were so cheap. I would usually allow myself to indulge a bit once a month, after the paycheck came in. Quickly I had too much stuff and couldn't follow up fast enough with restoring, sharpening etc. So I quit that habbit and have sold quite a lot allready.

One thing that can add up quickly are moulding planes. But good routerbits aren't cheap either. And because I haven't use mouldings much in the things I made, it wasn't too bad.

[paul cottingham]

My collection of hand planes, bought over the course of 10 years is less than $2 grand. If you removed some of the planes that are nice to have, but not necessary, that cost drops significantly. Hand saws around 1500 necessary ones, even new would be less than a grand. Im lucky, many of my saws were given to me "i dont know what to do with this....you want it?" So my costs for saws was very minimal. A good brace, used, is cheap. Chisels ( which you need for either kind of woodworking) needn't be expensive at all, Narex ones are fantastic for the money.

that comes to the cost of a decent table saw doesn't it?

Honestly, I'm a little like the Schwarz here; i think hand tool work is augmented nicely with a planer, bandsaw, and mortiser. Not needed, but nice for avoiding the real grunt work like ripping long lumber doing a ton of mortises or reducing the thickness of lumber. I can do all those things, but i find little joy in them, and no small amount of pain.

[Prashun Patel]

I stand corrected.

I do believe in this day and age, though, it's too tempting to keep buying just one more saw or plane in hopes that it makes us better with less effort. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's my temptation, and I'm projecting that urge onto others.

For those traditionally trained, or with the appropriate discipline, I'm sure it's entirely possible to do much more with less. But for the person just starting out, the access to information (misinformation? too much information?) gives me the impression that I can always improve my skill with more 'stuff'.

It was presumptuous of to say 'never heard...'

[Daniel Rode]

I don't want to sound like I'm somehow against the idea of owning expensive tools. I'm not. Sometimes, I fall in love with a tool myself.

People derive satisfaction from many aspects of tools and woodworking. From restoring to collecting to just using them. Regarding hand tools, I follow my own path. I'm mostly focused on working wood, tools are primarily an means to and end for me and I unapologetically use a combination of machines and hand tools.

It's one thing to discuss potential costs of tools but no one should have to defend buying nice tools

[Christopher Charles]

I have both very good hand tools and a couple of nice power tools. I started out with vintage hand tools, but a watershed moment for me was the purchase of a LN 60 1/2 block plane because it showed me what a well-tuned tool can do. Note that I grew up in the dawn of the internet and didn't have access to much info beyond FW and early forums.

I'll suggest that there is a common progression from desire for top end power tools to quality hand tools to the recognition that much can be done with much less or vintage _once_ sufficient skills have accumulated. This can be seen in Chris S's writing across the years. A similar thing happens to fishermen: lots of fish, lots of big fish, content to stand in a river I say this as a recovering gear head in both realms.

A final analogy, in the birding world, one can spend a lot of money on glass. I own decent glass, but by far the best money spent was $20 on some CDs that taught a good method to learn bird songs because i learned skills to hear birds before seeing them (~90% of birds are found by ear rather than eye). I feel the same way about having bought some good stones and the time i've spent developing basic hand tool skill with very modest chisels.


Thus, in my view, the value in asking this kind of question is as a way of assessing whether one is putting one's time and resources in the right direction. Neither a new table saw or plane will, by itself, make one a better woodworker, but both are useful (and often necessary) to accomplish many things.

Best,
C