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Thread: As not to hijack another thread, "moving machinery"

  1. #1

    As not to hijack another thread, "moving machinery"

    I was reading another thread and it got me to thinking about a situation of my own.

    I will be taking delivery of a AD941 this friday the 11th.

    I have a unique situation with a fenced yard will to narrow a gate opening for the machine to fit through. The yard is also on a incline and it worries me to use a pallet jack to move the machine.

    My solution has been hiring a crane to lift the machine off the pallet over my fence and onto a platformoutside my basement door. Once here i need to gently slide it down a ramp 30" and into my shop where i have a pallet jack waiting to move it into final place.

    In another thread it was suggested that just moving a machine on casters could mess with its tolerances. My plan is to strap the machine from underneath the base not touching the tables at all.

    So what do people think, anyone ever lifted a jointer with straps. I hear people suggest they have used a engine lift all the time. I cant see how that is any different.
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    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 09-04-2015 at 11:12 PM.

  2. #2
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    The other thread you mention is concerned with tolerances which may be affected AFTER the initial dialing in, caused by the constant movement of the machinery. In your case, you're concerned with the initial move, after which your machine will be in place, and can be dialed in. Two different situations.

    As far as using straps goes, check with the manufacturer - they'll be able to recommend attachment points for your straps (or recommend against the idea entirely).
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    My Hammer A3-31 sits on a flat platform with casters so it can be moved around. I have found no reason to think the machine is any less accurate that the day I got it. Fair enough if the floor is very rough and the platform flexible then it is most probably a bad idea. Those saying that it will cause the world to end would not want to have been around when I unloaded mine, they would have had a heart attack.
    Chris

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  4. #4
    Manufacturer will not say much. In conversation i have been very upfront what i intend to do. When asked about lash points i was sent a page out of the instruction manual with two moving suggestions. One showing a picture with the tables tops strapped and a big black X through it. The other the suggested method of movement a pallet jack.

    On the other hand the rep has not dissuaded how i move the machine as i have been very upfront about my moving /space restrictions from the get go.

    anyone have a Felder machine they have lifted with straps?




    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harding View Post
    The other thread you mention is concerned with tolerances which may be affected AFTER the initial dialing in, caused by the constant movement of the machinery. In your case, you're concerned with the initial move, after which your machine will be in place, and can be dialed in. Two different situations.

    As far as using straps goes, check with the manufacturer - they'll be able to recommend attachment points for your straps (or recommend against the idea entirely).

  5. #5
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    Hi Patrick. I raised the current round of discussion of chassis flexibility and its possible effect on settings as being a factor to consider on planer thicknessers moved about on casters. As Roy my particular experience just suggests that a finely set machine may be disturbed if it's wheeled on to a different surface - one which hasn't quite the same contours/levels as the one it was originally set up on. Presuming the second surface is only slightly out of flat (as in a floated concrete floor/there has been no severe twisting), then returning it to the original surface may well restore the status quo. My conclusion was just that it's better not to move a machine that's been finely dialled in if at all possible...

    I'm no expert on handling, but for sure the Hammer machines (don't know about Felder) are delivered mostly set up to be moved on a pallet, or using a pallet jack/truck. They are typically locked down on the OEM pallet with screwed brackets so they can't slide off. Pallet trucks are a PIA on gravelled or soft surfaces - they dig in unless sheeting or whatever is laid. They will twist quite severely if not on a flat surface. Lots of help is definitely advisable as planer thicknessers tend to be be tippy from side to side on a pallet truck too - they carry a lot of weight up high, and the constraints on fork placement mean they are often not well centred.

    I'm not sure how people handle ramps, but have heard mention of their sliding them down a timber surface laid over steps etc, with lots of straps attached and people to pull on them so that the machine slides only very slowly and can't tip over. Maybe a boat winch or similar purpose made would be useful? Apart from the risk of a major problem it's easy to chip paint or bend any unsupported edges on the cabinet, so a lot of care and possibly a sled (with battens or whatever so the machine can't slide off it) could be useful.

    There's a similar pic to that you describe prohibiting lifting by the tables in the Hammer manual (no surprise) - but there is a mention that if lifting using slings to ensure that they pass under the bottom of the cabinet. So it's not prohibited, at least not by Hammer.

    I'd imagine they avoid making more specific recommendations and leave the detail to those doing the lifting so as not to encourage the less than expert - there's the potential to e.g. damage switches, scuff paint or bend sheet metal if the straps are not properly positioned and fragile stuff protected. Heavy twisting loads are not a good idea - e.g. dropping all the weight on a corner. Care would be needed to select the correct type and placement of the straps too so that it couldn't tip over and out of them - the centre of gravity is high enough for this to be a possibility if it wasn't properly rigged.

    It's one of those situations that is routine for somebody experienced in handling stuff of that sort, but which on the other hand needs to be done right as (not exactly ground breaking news) getting it wrong could have significant consequences...
    Last edited by ian maybury; 09-05-2015 at 11:51 AM.

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    Unless you know someone with a crane that will cut you a deal, it may be more expensive to rent a crane than it would be to remove a section of fencing and then putting it back after its moved. As far as the ramp in your picture, if you have two people and a pallet jack, it would be easy peasy to take it down that ramp. One person holding the handle of the jack in the back and one in front giving resistance so to control the descent. Harbor Freight also sells truck dolly's for about $100 that will move 1000 lbs. I have one of those and it works great moving heavy equipment. Again, you'll need 2 people though for anything more than a couple hundred pounds.

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    The 941 will be a more stout build than the Hammer but I would still pick up from the bottom and not from the tables as you have stated. You might also be able to rent an electric pallet jack or at least a come a long to help control the descent. The machine will need to be dialed in after placed but a couple of guys should be able to handle it. I've moved machines up to 4000 lbs and it only gets real scary over 2000. You need a solid surface on the lawn, sidewalk or at least ply laid down. Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    The 941 will be a more stout build than the Hammer but I would still pick up from the bottom and not from the tables as you have stated. You might also be able to rent an electric pallet jack or at least a come a long to help control the descent. The machine will need to be dialed in after placed but a couple of guys should be able to handle it. I've moved machines up to 4000 lbs and it only gets real scary over 2000. You need a solid surface on the lawn, sidewalk or at least ply laid down. Dave
    David, what would need to be dialed in? My machine was spot on and needed no adjustment after I unloaded it from a trailer with no lifting involved, we just tipped up the trailer and slid it off.
    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    David, what would need to be dialed in? My machine was spot on and needed no adjustment after I unloaded it from a trailer with no lifting involved, we just tipped up the trailer and slid it off.
    Just to to add to this observation, my Felder CF531P didn't need any adjustment after placement either. But it was still checked out thoroughly after placement, and if there HAD been adjustments needed, they would have been done then. I don't know how common our experience of not needing dialling in after shipment is, and certainly hope for the same experience for everybody - but the machine still needs to be checked after placement and any dialling in accomplished then.
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    Run some wood through it and see what the result is?
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  11. #11
    I do know a crane operator through work. Still no deal though $700 for five hours.

    Even of i take the fence down i have to contend with a grade problem and a off camber 90% corner at the apex of that grade change.

    i do have a brand spnkin new pallet jack to move the machine around or machines around my shop if need ever be.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kent Adams View Post
    Unless you know someone with a crane that will cut you a deal, it may be more expensive to rent a crane than it would be to remove a section of fencing and then putting it back after its moved. As far as the ramp in your picture, if you have two people and a pallet jack, it would be easy peasy to take it down that ramp. One person holding the handle of the jack in the back and one in front giving resistance so to control the descent. Harbor Freight also sells truck dolly's for about $100 that will move 1000 lbs. I have one of those and it works great moving heavy equipment. Again, you'll need 2 people though for anything more than a couple hundred pounds.

  12. #12
    Decent down the ramp os my concern. Just outside that door atop the ramp is a 4/8 platform built atop a 4x4 frame. The machine will be dropped on that platform after being removed from its shipping pallet.

    To date the plan is to use a come along on the apposing wall mounted to my foundation via four 5/8 expansion bolts and some unistrut to gently pull the machine down the ramp.

    My only concern with this part of the plan is what if the machine wants to come down that ramp real quick like. I have no way of securing the machine from the upside of the ramp as to let a little slack out from above at a time.

    So is what i am hearing is no concerns with lifting the machine from underneath with straps via crane?

    Crane is hired so i gotta pay him. Plus i just assume take as little risk of dumping or hurting the machine as possible. $700 seems like short money if in a hours time i can land that machine in its new home unscathed.





    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    The 941 will be a more stout build than the Hammer but I would still pick up from the bottom and not from the tables as you have stated. You might also be able to rent an electric pallet jack or at least a come a long to help control the descent. The machine will need to be dialed in after placed but a couple of guys should be able to handle it. I've moved machines up to 4000 lbs and it only gets real scary over 2000. You need a solid surface on the lawn, sidewalk or at least ply laid down. Dave
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 09-05-2015 at 11:54 AM.

  13. #13
    I am counting on the machine arriving dialed in perfect. Hence i really dont want to do anything to throw it out of wack!

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Harding View Post
    Just to to add to this observation, my Felder CF531P didn't need any adjustment after placement either. But it was still checked out thoroughly after placement, and if there HAD been adjustments needed, they would have been done then. I don't know how common our experience of not needing dialling in after shipment is, and certainly hope for the same experience for everybody - but the machine still needs to be checked after placement and any dialling in accomplished then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    I am counting on the machine arriving dialed in perfect. Hence i really dont want to do anything to throw it out of wack!
    i won't. every machine i've ever gotten from felder has needed at least some sort of tweaking/fine tuning. on my ad741 the tables came coplanar, just needed to fine tune the height on of out feed table. the tension on the rollers needed to be reset as it was slipping a lot when running maple through the planar.

  15. #15
    Well if and when the time comes maybe you can help me with the specifics

    Quote Originally Posted by David Hawxhurst View Post
    i won't. every machine i've ever gotten from felder has needed at least some sort of tweaking/fine tuning. on my ad741 the tables came coplanar, just needed to fine tune the height on of out feed table. the tension on the rollers needed to be reset as it was slipping a lot when running maple through the planar.

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