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Thread: Open Handle Backsaws.

  1. #1
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    Open Handle Backsaws.

    Disston never carried an open-handled backsaw in its catalog, with the exception of the "Jackson" brand backsaw in the late 19th century and the "Davis" in the early 20th century. Jackson was a second-line brand with lesser quality in materials and finish than the Disston brand saws. It is shown with an open handle in the 1890 catalog. Later the Jackson saw was made with a closed handle only. Davis was of similar quality and featured an open handle in the 10 and 12 inch lengths.http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/openhandle.html

    If we discount Disston's #68 & #70 Dovetail Saws, and the example listed above; its a little puzzling as to why Disston restricted their range of backsaws to closed handles only under their own brand. Provided the handle wood Disston were using was well seasoned; and the forward weight of the saw blade assembly is restricted within reason, weakness within its design makes little sense if you take into account the range of open handle backsaws being offered from u.k saw makers pre 1900.

    I am currently working on some 12 inch open handle tenon saws; fitted with 0.020 saw plate; and thought it an interesting topic of discussion.

    Stewie;

  2. #2
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    Look forward to seeing your build.
    I suppose the answer to the open handle questione is lost in history. Could have been he felt it demonstrated "cutting corners" and thus the lower line status, just may not have liked it, thought the US market would view it as wimpy, ?
    i suspect it was something other than its durability or performance.

  3. #3
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    Stewie, what do you feel is the benefit of an open handle design as compared to the closed handle? Is it functional or purely artistic / appearance / style? Could it be that DIsston made saws that were more utilitarian as that better suited their typical customer need? I think we are drawn to the open handle design due to its elegance and style. I don't see any other advantage to it

  4. #4
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    Stewie, as I posted on the UK forum, Josh Clark (Hyperkitten) had an open handled backsaw for sale this past week. It was sold, but still shows near the bottom of his list. I have a Jackson open handled saw, that is the equal of any first line Disston. Oh, I also forgot, I have an open handled Disston backsaw, made for the MF 15-1/2 miter box (which I also have). Saw is stamped "Disston".
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  5. #5
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    Thanks Tony. Appreciate the feedback. Can you provide any additional information on your open handle backsaw marked Disston.

    regards Stewie;
    Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 09-06-2015 at 12:36 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Thanks Tony. Appreciate the feedback. Can you provide any additional information on your open handle backsaw marked Disston.

    regards Stewie;
    Send me you email address and I'll send you a few pics.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Zaffuto View Post
    Send me you email address and I'll send you a few pics.
    Why not post them here so we can all see?

    One of my Disston back saws has an open handle. Of course it is a replacement handle made by me.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Why not post them here so we can all see?

    One of my Disston back saws has an open handle. Of course it is a replacement handle made by me.

    jtk
    I would post them here Jim, but I am admittedly deficient in brain power to figure out how to post pics! If someone wants to PM me their address, I'll send them to them and they can post!

    T.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  9. #9
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    Just a thought. I have thought about this some in the past. It is my thoughts that an open handle is an inferior design. Only due to improper use. If one pushes below the area where the webbing of the hand rest, it puts an increased force ( rotational ) on the neck ( webbing ) area of the handle. Essentially creating a moment about the area. Increasing the possibility of shearing at that weakest point. And that area IS the weakest point. Much like a plane tote in reverse. Put too much force on the top of the plane tote instead of toward the base of the tote as you should, and the tote will shear near the base. The open handle saw design is no different, except in reverse. This is also why the grain needs to be oriented in the correct direction. Ultimately both examples come down to improper use of the tool. ( providing it was done correctly in the first place ) The closed handle, with or without the lambs tongue, helps prevents this. Also, as you know, the open handle is faster and cheaper to make much the same as a handle without a lamb's tongue vs one with the lamb's tongue. Basic physics and economics IMHO. Sorry no diagram showing the forces acting on the handle. I am currently at work.
    Oh. I would like to see those pics as well.
    Last edited by Ron Bontz; 09-06-2015 at 1:23 PM. Reason: forgot something.

  10. #10
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    Disston open handled backsaw

    OK, here's my first ever attempt to attach photo's!

    Disston saw 3.jpg

    Disston saw 4.jpg

    Have to add that the saw went to Pete Taran, probably a decade ago, as he wanted to take a closer look at it. As I said, the saw was supplied with the small MF miter boxes (see Derek's thread today on his re-build of the MF 15-1/2.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  11. #11
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    Its interesting to note the choice of timber predominantly used by early Saw Makers; Apple Wood (USA); European Beech (U.K); Both of these timbers rate high on seasonal wood movement. http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-...rdwoods/apple/
    http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-...uropean-beech/

  12. #12
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    OK, here's my first ever attempt to attach photo's!
    Great job, I knew you could do it!

    Thanks.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson View Post
    Its interesting to note the choice of timber predominantly used by early Saw Makers; Apple Wood (USA); European Beech (U.K); Both of these timbers rate high on seasonal wood movement. http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-...rdwoods/apple/
    http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-...uropean-beech/
    Most likely back then the thought and study of seasonal movement wasn't a consideration.

    Apple orchards were likely pretty old and trees being replaced. This may have led to a cheap supply of wood.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #14
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    Disston handle close-up

    Here is a close up of the Disston open handle:

    Disston saw 5.jpg
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  15. #15
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    Thanks Tony for the photo's. Is the length of the saw plate around 10 inch. !

    Stewie;

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