Brushing on a "spray only" finish?

[Allan Speers]

Based on information I've received on this forum, I would very much like to use GF's "Enduro" Pre-Cat for all of my house's interior trim. It's reportedly very durable, yet doesn't have that "plastic" look so common with most polys.

However, everyone says you have to spray it. I can't spray all my interior trim, and removing the trim would be insane.

SO WHY CAN'T I BRUSH THIS? (or any other "spraying" finish?) Sure, spraying makes it easier to get even coverage, and to get into recesses, but why I can't just use a very good synthetic brush, or a foam brush?

It's impossible to reach the General Finishes company directly, so I called Woodcraft. It turned into a very long call, as the guy who answered talked to just about everyone there, and no one had a good answer.
However, the general consensus was that it should be possible, with good results: Here's the thinking:

The "spray only" finishes are thin (not self-leveling and they start to set up very quickly after being exposed to air. So, one could probably brush it on with a foam brush, and just keep dumping the brushes as the stuff hardens on them. You'd also likely would probably have to do a few extra coats.

Foam brushes are inexpensive, so why not?
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Your thoughts?

Has anyone actually done this, with success?

[George Bokros]

I have called GF twice and was able to talk to someone and got some questions answered.

[Allan Speers]

OK, so could you please give me the number?

there is NOTHING to be found online. No number, no support email, no messaging system on their website.

Even the guys at Woodcraft, who sell their products, did not know how to contact them. I'm not kidding.

[George Bokros]

800-783-6050

Switchboard.com is your friend

[Rich Enders]

I am no expert, but it seems that brushing finishes need additional time to level before drying. For spraying it would seem the reverse is ideal. I experienced this with solvent based lacquer which is probably an extreme case, A Sherwin Williams sprayable was very difficult to to brush, and looked brushed when done.. Maybe using foam brushes would have helped, but you still have overlaps to deal with.

[Allan Speers]

Interesting thoughts, Rich.

Leveling isn't needed, nor desired, with vertical trim. However, you might have a point about overlap, if it dries too fast.
Most of these finishes don't melt into themselves, right?

[Allan Speers]

800-783-6050

Switchboard.com is your friend

Thanks! I'll try tomorrow.

[Rich Enders]

Melting. Hummm. Lacquer; yes. Poly; only if a new coat is applied within a few minutes. My only experience was with rattle can sprayed (mineral spirits clean up) high gloss black. Re-coating within 5-10 minutes worked OK, but that was in 90F+, 10% humidity AZ. In a normal climate you would probably have some more time.

[Howard Acheson]

Let me strongly suggest you prepare some boards similar to your trim and try applying your planned finish. See how it handles and covers.
That's the only way to learn how it will apply and look.

I general, finish formulated for spray application will not flatten well and tends to run if a brush is used.

[John TenEyck]

Using Pre-Cat seems like overkill for both the application and your wallet. Why not use GF's EnduroVar? It will stand up to nearly anything and costs about $80/gal vs. $120. Most importantly, it's designed to be brushed on, and it doesn't look like plastic.

IMG_9465.JPGIMG_3228.JPG

John

[Prashun Patel]

Boy, John, I wish you could show me how to dial in the fluid/air combo. That finish is really pretty.

[John TenEyck]

Boy, John, I wish you could show me how to dial in the fluid/air combo. That finish is really pretty.

Come on up, Prashun! Seriously, EnduroVar isn't the easiest thing to spray but it's not that hard either. I'm using a low cost gravity feed HVLP conversion gun with a 1.8 mm orifice and around 28 psi inlet pressure. It sprays even better through the cheap HF purple gun with a 1.4 mm orifice but the application rate is so slow that I rarely use it. That orifice is technically too small but it sure does atomize great with it. In either case, you have to get it on wet enough for it to flow out. Too thin and it will set before it flows out leaving craters; too heavy and you get orange peel. My recommendation from afar is to use the smallest orifice you can and put on a coat that you think it just a little too heavy.

John

[Allan Speers]

Let me strongly suggest you prepare some boards similar to your trim and try applying your planned finish. See how it handles and covers.
That's the only way to learn how it will apply and look.

No question, that's what I intend to do. I already stained some spare trim in preparation.

I general, finish formulated for spray application will not flatten well and tends to run if a brush is used.

Interesting point. I'll ask about this specifically when I call around. (Had no time today.)

[Allan Speers]

Using Pre-Cat seems like overkill for both the application and your wallet. Why not use GF's EnduroVar? It will stand up to nearly anything and costs about $80/gal vs. $120. Most importantly, it's designed to be brushed on, and it doesn't look like plastic.

John

Yes, several folks have recommended Endovar to me. However, it has also been stated that Endovar is not terrifically resistant to ammonia-based cleaners. Since a lot of my trim is in the kitchen, this troubles me a little.

BTW, I love that table. Is that soild birdseye?

[John TenEyck]

Yes, several folks have recommended Endovar to me. However, it has also been stated that Endovar is not terrifically resistant to ammonia-based cleaners. Since a lot of my trim is in the kitchen, this troubles me a little.

BTW, I love that table. Is that soild birdseye?

I did some comparative testing on several finishes. EnduroVar was unaffected by Windex with Ammonia D, as well as most any other food product, DNA, acetone, most anything. It tested better than oil based polyurethane in my testing. I would have no hesitation using it in a kitchen application, dining table, etc. FWIW, you should never use ammonia based cleaners on any finished wood product, but I know people do it. Kitchen surfaces are easily cleaned with mineral spirits followed by Murphy's Oil Soap if required. When I sell a piece to someone I always instruct them NOT to use household cleaners.

The "table" is actually a dresser that I rescued for a friend. What you're looking at is shop sawn veneer that I applied over the solid wood substrate, after I removed the original, damaged veneer. I plucked that board of birdseye out of the regular pile at one of the wood mongers I sometimes go to. It really was an outstanding board; think I paid about $2.50/BF for it. Sometimes you get lucky. I got a couple of others with some beautiful curl in them.

John