Finishing off the lathe - Feeling overwhelmed

[Jeff Grantham]

A little background: I've only been turning now for about a year, though I've been doing woodworking since I was a teen. So I've got some experience in finishing, though I'd never say it was my strongest suit. And a confession, I'm also lazy when it comes to sanding/finishing. So I find great appeal in being able to sand and finish directly on the lathe, where the machine is doing alot of the work. And I've been very happy with the results when doing that! I've tried all of the following with pretty good results:

• mineral oil & beeswax
• General's WTF
• Mylands friction polish
• and my favorite, EEE UltraShine followed by Shellawax cream (though it's pretty shiny).

These are all pretty straightforward and don't require multiple steps of different treatments. Here's an example of the EEE/Shellawax finish that I was pleased with:
20150905_164833.jpg

However, some projects just don't lend themselves to being finished on the lathe, and that's where I seem to be running into trouble. It seems like A.) there's much more work involved, and B.) the results aren't as good. One bowl was maple and I finished it simply with walnut oil. That one took on a bit of a yellow hue, and it seemed to not take evenly. Another one was walnut. I finished this one with amber shellac, but it's looking quite blotchy (it also looks a little cloudy at the moment, as it's been sanded for another coat)...
20150923_183822.jpg
My feeling is that perhaps I need to be thinking more of sealing the wood first, to avoid uneven or blotchy results... would that be accurate? Is that more of a concern when finishing off the lathe? If so, what's a good solution? I've read suggestions of BLO, Sanding Sealer, or Shellac as a sealer - are the these the best options? Any pluses or minuses to each? And as a final step is buffing something that lots of folks do (ie Beal buff)? I've not tried that.

I've done lots of reading, but there are so many different approaches, and many seem to involve 4 or 5 of 6 different steps to achieve good results. What I'm really looking for is a straighforward theory/approach that's not super complicated, and that doesn't seem to require a new finish every time! Perhaps I'm just dreaming

And as a final, more pragmatic question, I have a pedestal bowl that I just finished sanding made out of maple, see the picture below. How would y'all finish it, if you were looking to bring out the grain and perhaps darken/warm it up a little? After the last couple of disappointments, I'm getting gunshy.
20150923_183745.jpg

Sorry for the lengthy post and all the questions. For anyone who was willing to read through the whole thing, thank you!

[Allan Ferguson]

Try General Finishes, Salad Bowl Finish. It is an oil base finish that will bring out the grain of the wood. Apply on the lath. It is slow to cure but flattens out. Allan

[ALAN HOLLAR]

Are you spraying or wiping your finishes? Penetrating oils like walnut, Tung, and boiled linseed oil will typically need more than one application, but since they are wipe o, wipe off applications, they will give pretty even results. Danish Oils, or oil/varnish blends will do the same. Film finishes, like shellac, lacquer, polyurethanes and varnishes require a lot of practice to apply smoothly by wiping or brushing and tend to give better results with spray application. A quick wipe on wipe off off BLO or danish oil will deepen and darken most woods, and can be top coated with lacquer, shellac or varnish. Danish oil followed by wax and buffing requires little in the way of equipment. Water borne finishes are sometimes good, and sometimes not. Finishing has a learning curve just like turning, and is also influenced by what is possible in your location. Clear finishes don't require sealers or primers.

[Jeff Grantham]

Try General Finishes, Salad Bowl Finish. It is an oil base finish that will bring out the grain of the wood. Apply on the lath. It is slow to cure but flattens out. Allan

Thanks, Alan F. I do actually have the Salad Bowl Finish on hand, so perhaps I'll try that. That's a finish in and of itself, yes? IE, I don't need to put anything else on before or after?

Are you spraying or wiping your finishes? Penetrating oils like walnut, Tung, and boiled linseed oil will typically need more than one application, but since they are wipe o, wipe off applications, they will give pretty even results. Danish Oils, or oil/varnish blends will do the same. Film finishes, like shellac, lacquer, polyurethanes and varnishes require a lot of practice to apply smoothly by wiping or brushing and tend to give better results with spray application. A quick wipe on wipe off off BLO or danish oil will deepen and darken most woods, and can be top coated with lacquer, shellac or varnish. Danish oil followed by wax and buffing requires little in the way of equipment. Water borne finishes are sometimes good, and sometimes not. Finishing has a learning curve just like turning, and is also influenced by what is possible in your location. Clear finishes don't require sealers or primers.

So far only wiping. I've never tried spray finishes, so I've always had a little fear of it. The differentiation of penetrating vs. film finishes is a helpful one. Does a penetrating oil like BLO do the same thing as sanding sealer as far as preventing uneven absorption? Part of my confusion is whether I should be using a sanding sealer type product as the first application. What qualifies as a clear finish?

And agreed, finishing is really an art in and of itself, and I have alot to learn! I guess if I'm smart, I should break down and invest in a few good finishing products and test the results out on scraps. I have a whole shelf full of various finishes, but most of them aren't anything I'd care to use on my turnings.

[Prashun Patel]

If you want a quick, professional looking finish for a non-utilitarian or lightly used bowl, then it's hard to beat Deft Spray lacquer. It levels perfectly.

You don't need to seal if spray finishing.

BLO is a poor sealer. In fact, it will highlight blotch.

Keep in mind that bowls will always have transitions from end to side grain, so they're prone to being darker at the poles.

[Brian Myers]

Turning gives instant gratification , finishing does not. Finishing takes time and some patience if you want it to look good. There is just really is no way around it. Walnut oil , danish oil , BLO etc. take multiple applications. Danish oil and BLO need time to dry which can vary widely depending on the season and where you are located. Walnut oil or something like Mahoney's Utility finish (walnut oil) can be used for food right away if that's the purpose of the bowl. Delft spray lacquer is nice but you still needs multiple coats. There is no magical finish, just need to learn what each requires as you go.

[Jeff Grantham]

If you want a quick, professional looking finish for a non-utilitarian or lightly used bowl, then it's hard to beat Deft Spray lacquer. It levels perfectly.

You don't need to seal if spray finishing.

BLO is a poor sealer. In fact, it will highlight blotch.

Keep in mind that bowls will always have transitions from end to side grain, so they're prone to being darker at the poles.

That sounds almost too good to be true Prashun! With all the talk of 3- and 4- and even 5- step processes, a simple spray does sound very appealing, and it looks relatively cheap to boot. Could I ask a stupid question about BLO? If it's not a sealer, then what's it's purpose?

[Mark Greenbaum]

Sorry to add this to the thread, but I am prone to using Super Blonde Flake Shellac dissolved in Denatured Alcohol. I sand to at least 600, then wipe on SBFS/DNA liberally, and spin slowly. When it's dried (3-5 minutes) sand again to remove the raised grain, re-apply SBFS/DNA sand with 0000 steel wool or ScotchBrite after every 3rd coat and repeat many times. Final polish is the French polish technique with dauber lightly soaked with same, but add a few drops of Olive Oil to lubricate. I've done this on bowls, platters, and plates with good finish results, and it's fairly durable for washing with soap and water. Re-apply and French Polish if needed. I started to use this technique so I could be a better guitar finisher without spray equipment, and to do burst/fade color finishes.

[Prashun Patel]

Ironically, BLO's main function (IMHO) is to highlight or 'pop' grain. It can make the grain appear 3-dimensional or irridescent. But that ability makes it also highlight blotchiness and improper sanding.

Don't get me wrong, the multi-step process on the lathe can achieve an "A+" bowling ball polish, or a silky smooth in-the-wood finish.

But if you have a few to crank out, and can't spend the time, the spray lacquer can get you a solid "A" finish. I like semigloss or satin for hiding very minor sanding shortcuts I may have taken.

[Jeff Grantham]

Turning gives instant gratification , finishing does not. Finishing takes time and some patience if you want it to look good. There is just really is no way around it. Walnut oil , danish oil , BLO etc. take multiple applications. Danish oil and BLO need time to dry which can vary widely depending on the season and where you are located. Walnut oil or something like Mahoney's Utility finish (walnut oil) can be used for food right away if that's the purpose of the bowl. Delft spray lacquer is nice but you still needs multiple coats. There is no magical finish, just need to learn what each requires as you go.

Time and patience I can deal with. It's not knowing what process I should follow that drives me crazy. How does one look at a piece and say, 'this one should get BLO, followed by Shellac', or 'Danish Oil would work best on this one, with some wax on top'. So many options, and the sequence is important.

[Jeff Grantham]

Sorry to add this to the thread, but I am prone to using Super Blonde Flake Shellac dissolved in Denatured Alcohol. I sand to at least 600, then wipe on SBFS/DNA liberally, and spin slowly. When it's dried (3-5 minutes) sand again to remove the raised grain, re-apply SBFS/DNA sand with 0000 steel wool or ScotchBrite after every 3rd coat and repeat many times. Final polish is the French polish technique with dauber lightly soaked with same, but add a few drops of Olive Oil to lubricate. I've done this on bowls, platters, and plates with good finish results, and it's fairly durable for washing with soap and water. Re-apply and French Polish if needed. I started to use this technique so I could be a better guitar finisher without spray equipment, and to do burst/fade color finishes.

No apologies necessary, I welcome the feedback Mark. Do you have a preferred brand of Flake Shellac? I've looked at this before, but there are several brands out there, and it looks pretty pricy for a finish.

Ironically, BLO's main function (IMHO) is to highlight or 'pop' grain. It can make the grain appear 3-dimensional or irridescent. But that ability makes it also highlight blotchiness and improper sanding.

Don't get me wrong, the multi-step process on the lathe can achieve an "A+" bowling ball polish, or a silky smooth in-the-wood finish.

But if you have a few to crank out, and can't spend the time, the spray lacquer can get you a solid "A" finish. I like semigloss or satin for hiding very minor sanding shortcuts I may have taken.

In my line of work I often have to follow the 80/20 rule.... sure the gold medal, 100% perfomance would be great, but if you can get 80% of the results for only 20% of the effort, then a silver or bronze medal is often quite fine. Sounds like that's where you'd place the spray lacquer?

[Thom Sturgill]

If doing a film finish like lacquer a sealer (sanding sealer or shellac) can help even the surface and fill pores in woods like walnut. If doing an oil or oil/varnish finish the sealer seals the wood and prevents the pentration that you are looking for from the oil.

Personal favorite finishes are either oil sanding (walnut by preference) followed by buffing OR lacquer over sealer. I have been a big user of Deft, but the local big box stores have stopped carrying it and I am on my last can. Some club members have started ordering it online. I have used Deft brushing lacquer thinned 4/1 for a sealer - brush it on until it will not take any more and wet sand with mineral spirits (MS) to about 600 grit or 1500 micromesh. You should not be able to see any 'spots' where the sanding has not touched the surface of the finish. If you can, then do another coat. Then spray semi-gloss in light passes and polish with micro-mesh up to 6 or 8 thousand using more MS. Keep the turning wet and use a paper towel to follow the MM and pick up the waste. Change MS and towel regularly. I use one of those magnetic parts bowls to hold the MS - just set it on the banjo.

The Deft Gloss has a different formulation than the brush on and satin and Semi-Gloss sprays, so I do not use it. The Semi-Gloss polishes to as high a gloss as the Gloss does, it just requires a bit of work on polish with the micromesh. Using this protocol increase the rotational speed as you go up to the higher numbered cloths or pads.

[Mark Greenbaum]

I originally bought from Woodcraft, then from Shellac.com (1/2 the price per pound). I've been meaning to try PGA instead of DNA, but never go to the liquor store :-)

[Bruce Pratt]

Sand to at least 600
Light colored wood - wipe-on water-based polyacrylic (I use General Finishes); available in flat to gloss; brings out grain, does not yellow or darken wood.
darker wood - wipe on polyurethane (I use Minwax) - available satin to gloss
3-5 coats for either, hand buff with brown grocery bag paper between coats.
For utility salad bowls, beeswax/mineral oil (several commercial brands available)

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Sorry, IMO you cannot cut corners on finishing. You always have to be 100% to what your standards are. If you sand, you need to stop at 600, 400 or 320 or what works for you. Stopping at 220 won't get good results. stopping at 3 coats vice 4 also won't work. I think you need to find 1 or 2 finishes that works for YOU. Shellac, Danish oil, lacquer what ever you choose and like the finish it produces. Stick with those and get to where you get results good enough for you.
Personally I like Wipe on Poly, been using it for years. Need to buff. I use 6 coats minimum.