Glowforge launched today

[Matt McCoy]

That's the issue Matt, some of you are seeing this as hostility, when no one's meaning it that way. Show me hostility towards the PRODUCT because I'm not seeing it. If we question any single thing about it, then you immediately call us hostile towards it. It could do horrible things and if we bring it up as something to be concerned about, then we're "off the rails" about it all and hostile. Unless we say that it's the greatest innovation that industry has ever seen and the guy is brilliant, and the company is fantastic, then we get bashed about it.

I'm not sure how to discuss it when no matter what we say, we are shown non-related examples to try and dismiss the concern. If you don't think fire in a laser is something for a consumer level product to deal with, then I don't know how to respond to that. We had a fire less than a year ago that did damage to our machine. If I wasn't standing right there, it would have burned the machine, then the building to the ground. Last week, while watching acrylic cut, I saw a substantial flame build up. I was able to stop it within seconds. Had I been looking the other way for 10-15 seconds, we would have had a very serious fire.

Maybe you haven't experienced a fire yet, I don't know. I have, and it's something that I, and others, are VERY concerned about on a consumer level product. Forgive me for being so "hostile" when I'm concerned about people burning their homes down, with the possibility of kids inside it. Silly me, oh, all the hostility I have built up inside.....

I could be perceived as hostile as well. Just pointing things out and making predictions.

Imagine when a kid tries to cut out hundreds of snowflakes at the same time by cutting an entire pad of paper... then the doorbell rings.

Hey Scott: I'm certain everyone that has money involved in this company/product has safety concerns. Maybe even more than other manufacturers, because they are trying to make this approachable by a wider swath of users that a much more expensive laser excludes. Take a look at Inventables X-Carve project and its Easel software. It's pretty amazing and empowering to people that just want to create stuff. It's still a tool that you will have to take basic precautions with, but you can find them in homes and schools. This was based on Edward Ford's clever Shapeoko project that has been around for a few years. They have changed the landscape of desktop CNC and opened doors for creative types. Glowforge could do the same thing.

By the way, we recently had a fire in our kitchen. The stove has a control board that malfunctioned and broiled the banana bread my wife was baking. The door has an automatic lock that engaged while the fire burned like a fireplace. It was pretty scary. It's a well-known and respected manufacturer. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

It does seem to me like a lot of negativity (curmudgeon-ous) aimed at all involved in this project. If you don't see it or recall from the previous thread, that's fine with me. However, I don't believe I'm alone in my impression.

Doug: I don't think you're hostile, just grumpy.

[Scott Shepherd]

It does seem to me like a lot of negativity (curmudgeon-ous) aimed at all involved in this project. If you don't see it or recall from the previous thread, that's fine with me. However, I don't believe I'm alone in my impression.

So you don't see any of those who are saying negative things about it saying positive things as well? Because I see a LOT of people saying it's pretty cool software and some clever concepts.

There's a HUGE difference in your oven and a laser. Those are the references I keep talking about. They are red herrings. If it didn't have an interlock on it and you could open the lid while it was firing, and we brought it up, you'd say "Well, you can burn your hand on our stove if you aren't careful too". One has nothing to do with the other at all. There's no doubt there's risk all around us. We even had people saying "Steps are dangerous" too. Seriously? You're comparing walking down the steps to a laser in regards to safety?

Report back when someone burns there house down with the thing and tell us how "houses burn down every day", I guess?

You can't burn your house down with a Shapeoko, you can't poison those in the room with a Shapeoko. (I suppose you couldn't, but the probability is far less than a laser)

Time will tell. But it doesn't make us wrong for bringing it up, because it's a VERY serious concern.

[Anthony Scira]

Well when they say a 40 watt laser can cut 3/4 in ply. I mean it is not hostile. We just know better.

There are a lot of awesome features on that machine. Just none of it has even been shown to work real time. I hope it works. And what happens when someone puts their 2000 dollar laptop in there relying on the camera alignment and it screws it up ? It will make all the big high end lasers set the bar higher. Until it does work. Well just call me skeptical.

[Bert Kemp]

I'd almost bet this auto lock feature is what saved your house. I'll go out on a limb and say its a built in safety feature to contain the fire inside the METAL OVEN BOX and to prevent someone from opening it and allowing the fire to spread into the house. Ovens are designed for heat and lots of it, the plastic case of a glowforge is not designed to contain a firem neither are most lasers, but most lasers have a metal engraving area that will help contain the fire, and keep it from spreading.

Hey Scott: I'm certain everyone that has money involved in this company/product has safety concerns. Maybe even more than other manufacturers, because they are trying to make this approachable by a wider swath of users that a much more expensive laser excludes. Take a look at Inventables X-Carve project and its Easel software. It's pretty amazing and empowering to people that just want to create stuff. It's still a tool that you will have to take basic precautions with, but you can find them in homes and schools. This was based on Edward Ford's clever Shapeoko project that has been around for a few years. They have changed the landscape of desktop CNC and opened doors for creative types. Glowforge could do the same thing.

By the way, we recently had a fire in our kitchen. The stove has a control board that malfunctioned and broiled the banana bread my wife was baking. The door has an automatic lock that engaged while the fire burned like a fireplace. It was pretty scary. It's a well-known and respected manufacturer. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

It does seem to me like a lot of negativity (curmudgeon-ous) aimed at all involved in this project. If you don't see it or recall from the previous thread, that's fine with me. However, I don't believe I'm alone in my impression.

Doug: I don't think you're hostile, just grumpy.

[brian saban]

Well they do have a lot of good people that shocked us in the 3d printer world, so I don't rule out what they're claiming "But" what I would worry about the most is the location of that glass tube. It's literally right there when you open the glass lid. The biggest plus is obviously the price, but we have all seen chinese machines in action and with the volume sold the price is feasible. What I think it's going to come down to is support and the speed of the machine in which I was hoping to see at the faire. As far as support it doesn't bode well that they couldn't have at least 1 of 3 operating. I think at the end of the day if all actually works out, i think the american companies will seriously have to adjust their pricing, which I think we all can agree are way out of whack in this day and age. So I stay optimistic but not convinced, and way to experienced to pre order.

[Rich Harman]

I'd almost bet this auto lock feature is what saved your house. I'll go out on a limb and say its a built in safety feature to contain the fire inside the METAL OVEN BOX and to prevent someone from opening it and allowing the fire to spread into the house.

Makes sense to me. I wonder what, if any, safety measures are built into the GlowForge.

[Rich Harman]

Well when they say a 40 watt laser can cut 3/4 in ply. I mean it is not hostile. We just know better.

I haven't seen where they claim 3/4" anything - only 1/4" - which is reasonable. Where are they saying it can cut 3/4"?

[Scott Shepherd]

I haven't seen where they claim 3/4" anything - only 1/4" - which is reasonable. Where are they saying it can cut 3/4"?

Post #85 in this thread, Brian saw them at a show and they were saying, in person, that it will cut 3/4".

I haven't seen anyone mention the "See something, take a photo of it and engrave it". Really? I guess copyright doesn't mean anything any more? All of us play by the rules, and we can't go take photos of other people's work, or even pull images off of Goggle without the permission of the creator of the artwork, yet they make it sound like you can just walk all around, take all sorts of photos of other people's work, bring it back, make it, and then sell it.

[Dave Sheldrake]

The other big thing that concerns me is the fire hazard. This machine is made out of plastic

You know what Bert? for all my experience and huge machines that's one BIG thought that never crossed my mind.....Now you have mentioned it...I wonder what the plastic is? many injection moulded plastics aren't particularly nice when they burn to the point that few people in fires die from burning, they usually die for noxious contaminant inhalation or oxygen deprivation.

Very valid point brother and well spotted !

[Rich Harman]

Post #85 in this thread, Brian saw them at a show and they were saying, in person, that it will cut 3/4".

I knew about that, I meant a claim directly from GlowForge. What Brian heard may have been a misunderstanding, either on Brian's part or on the salesperson so we should not get up in arms about it unless we can verify that GlowForge is marketing it as being able to cut 3/4". I only know of them claiming 1/4".

[Jacob John]

Post #85 in this thread, Brian saw them at a show and they were saying, in person, that it will cut 3/4".

I haven't seen anyone mention the "See something, take a photo of it and engrave it". Really? I guess copyright doesn't mean anything any more? All of us play by the rules, and we can't go take photos of other people's work, or even pull images off of Goggle without the permission of the creator of the artwork, yet they make it sound like you can just walk all around, take all sorts of photos of other people's work, bring it back, make it, and then sell it.

This is where I have a HUGE issue, as I create original items to laser and sell. And I certainly don't have the resources to scour the internet looking for unoriginal thieves. I guess anyone can steal another person's work, but that feature, while really cool, seems to open up the floodgates for theft, if it performs as being discussed.

[Walt Langhans]

Well now... this has been an interesting read. I have to say I had no idea about this product until I came across this thread, but upon reading this and checking out this '3D - Laser Printer' here's my 2 cents.

1/ If someone buys this and comes to the creek for advice, you know what's going to happen... They are going to get it. That's what the creek is about. Yeah we might be thinking in the backs of our minds that this wasn't a good purchase, but we are going to help them the best we can.

2/ Reading thru this, yes there have been some negative comments about the machine it's self but if you read them, they are from people who have the real world experience and know what a laser can and can't do and they are only stating the truth. "IF" there has been any hostility in this thread, it been more of how they are marking this machine, and not so much the machine itself. And let's be honest here folks, they are pushing the edge of marketing right up against the wall of misrepresentation.

3/ Regarding #2, and that's the companies choice on how they do business not ours. I just hope they have a good law firm becasue if this product goes out in it's present form and marketed in the way that it has been, I'll bet my business that it won't be long before some one burns their house down with it.

[Dave Sheldrake]

1/ If someone buys this and comes to the creek for advice, you know what's going to happen... They are going to get it. That's what the creek is about. Yeah we might be thinking in the backs of our minds that this wasn't a good purchase, but we are going to help them the best we can.

For once I'd actually have to disagree brother sadly my stock answer to helping somebody try and fix one of these is most likely to be "Sell it before you get hurt". Sadly there is a good reason for that, whenever you have to deal with somebody that has made a bad decision you are already fighting Ego....people don't like to feel stupid so will often ask a question with an answer in mind and become hostile when that expected answer isn't supplied. They will then lower any expectation of what the machine can actually do to close on what it is doing rather than inline with the claims of the supplier of what it can do.

"But it's a great machine in general, the tube lasted over 1,000 hours"

, they neglect to mention that the supplier told them it would last at least 5,000.

"It is a 40 watt tube, when it fires my homemade power meter that cost $5 says it's 40 watts"

, sure most lasers fire well above their operating power level, nature of DC tubes sadly

"The beam is TEM00, I tested it with my Ebay chunk of perspex"

, unfortunately my $15,000 optical wave front analyser disagree's

"The mirrors are supposed to get really hot,after all a laser beam is hot"

, really? explain how something that has no effective mass can provide a measure of molecular vibration?, I think you will find a clue in the name mirror, it's supposed to reflect not cook stuff

I've been back and forth on Facebook the last few days trying to advise a few promoters of the product that the claims made are just that...claims....in much the same way as I've read claims that 35 watt Chinese K40's will cut 30mm perspex. In effect they will but cycle times will be in days and the quality will be dreadful.

In general there seems to be a view on FB of

"but this machine has a TEM00 tube"
"but this machines casing will be fireproof"
"But this machine will be as safe as a printer"
"I ordered one because I know about lasers don't I"
"you are just jealous because it will be better than your machines" (that one always makes me giggle as I don't sell lasers)

If this actually did what half the claims made by soon to be owners thinks it does I'd buy 50 of them tomorrow but sadly most of it is based on the flawed assumption that everything they are being told is black and white truth when in reality some of the claims can be disproved using simple Optical Physics...but nooooo the physics is all wrong and somebody asking you to give them money is right !

So will I be rushing to help somebody that contrary to significant advice from a lot of people still goes and buys one?...in truth? No...

[Walt Langhans]

For once I'd actually have to disagree brother sadly my stock answer to helping somebody try and fix one of these is most likely to be "Sell it before you get hurt".

Dave, Dave, Dave.... You just proved my point The creek is here to help, as we always do. I said we would provide advice and in this case that advice is probably the best advice!

[Bert Kemp]

or don't buy it in the first place