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Thread: Is it Neander sacrilege to cut mortises by machine?

  1. #1

    Is it Neander sacrilege to cut mortises by machine?

    Hi folks,
    Yesterday, I started a small chair project that uses wood that's 1 1/2" square as it's basic component. I decided to go with M&T joinery for strength and durability - tenons that are 1/2" thick. But I don't have a 1/2" mortise chisel. So, for the first time, I drilled out most of the waste and squared things up with a bench chisel.

    Here's the rub. I found that I LIKED doing it this way. Minimal setup required - mark a centerline in the mortise, chuck a 7/16" bradpoint bit in the drill press - and I got nice square mortises, quickly.

    I'm a hybrid woodworker, rather than a full up Neander. I like handtools because I've learned that I can do so much stuff more quickly than with my machines - especially if it's only a few parts at a time. (I love using my planes, chisels and backsaws to do better/finer work and I get better with them every day.) But I can't see any real advantage to cutting mortises manually. I mean, they are always the same - no odd angles, no fine adjustments (I do those on the tenon), etc.

    I definitely feel that cutting a few tenons by hand is better - faster than setup, etc and easier to tune. But I'm not seeing an equivalent example for Mortises. Am I missing something important, beyond the satisfaction of mastering another tool?

    I'd appreciate some feedback.

    Thanks.
    Fred
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 10-07-2015 at 8:43 AM.

  2. #2
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    You may find it's not always possible to setup for the cut that you want to make, so it's a great skill to have. That being said, if you like this method you can always use a brace/bit to hollow out the mortises in odd situations.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #3
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    Is it Neander sacriledge to cut mortises by machine?
    To me, the neanderthal moniker is more a state of mind towards getting it done with the tools on hand than it is about hand tool only work.

    My lumber comes mostly cut by machines. At times my froe or other tools are used to split out some pieces from downed trees. They still might get the power treatment from a chainsaw or bandsaw.

    Most of the time my tenon work is done with a chisel. For some reason it seems faster than setting up the drill press and drilling out most of the waste.

    There is a wide assortment of people and styles within this forum. Some take a minimalist approach working with as small of a tool selection as is possible for them. Some may have a small shop or any other reason for keeping it simple. Some of us go to the far end and accumulate every hand tool that comes our way. Some even go for making their own human powered tools or purchasing old human powered machines.

    There is more than one way to be a neander.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #4
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    To each their own. Use what you have and choose to use. I do agree with Brian, it's still a good skill to have. That doesn't mean you have to do it that way.

  5. #5
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    I prefer to do most by hand as it is easier for just a few, but have a drill press primarily for wasting mortices (I still square them by hand). As Jim says, not strict line in the sand; mostly about a mindset that allows a different approach.

    C
    "You can observe a lot just by watching."
    --Yogi Berra

  6. #6
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    I cut mortises both ways, machine and hand. Most of the time chisels and mallet seem best.

    As far as not having a 1/2" mortise chisel, a firmer or a blue chip chisel will do just fine. I didn't buy mortise chisels for about 7 years.

    I learned to chop mortises at Homestead Heritage in Waco Texas. It was a school that was directed by Paul Sellers.
    Each bench was equipped with blue chip chisels and that's what we used.

    I have mortise chisels, Narex, Lie Nielsen, and Ray Iles. I often use a 1" bevel edge chisel for the through mortice on the arm for the through tenon on the front legs. The mortises on the chair I made for my Great Grandaughter to be rocked in were made with a 1" bevel edged chisel ground down to 15/16" because of a mistake I made. There was not room for the full 1" mortise.

    Why don't you try some practice mortises with the chisels you have. You can answer your question yourself. You will be glad to have both skills, you probably already do.

  7. #7
    Why would anyone judge your method? If it is efficient for u, produces good results and makes you feel joy doing it, what else is there?

    people seem to think neanders are more judgy than they really are. (Sharpening methods notwithstanding)

    Fwiw I am hybrid like you. I prefer a pin router for wasting. Although the drill press has its appeal for control reasons.

  8. #8
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    Are you a neander re-enactor? Probably not. I doubt any of us are. There are some very talented hand tool workers on this forum (Hi George!).

    Not everything has to be a journey on each project. Sometimes you just want something you made to sit on. Mortiser away.

    Btw, I own one too. Floor model Jet which I got for $99, but that's another story for a different forum...
    Where did I put that tape measure...

  9. #9
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    For what it is worth, a drill press makes lousy mortices:

    If you are looking at long, vertical sided mortices, then first drilling out the waste leaves one to square up the sides with a chisel. It is easier using a mortice chisel in the first place.

    If you want a round mortice, nothing beats an auger bit in a brace for rapid waste removal. I was reminded of this when adding a few extra hold down holes to my 3 1/2" thick oak bench top last week. The advantage of the bit-and-brace is that angles are unlimited, and as quick to achieve as it takes to set up a couple of visual guides.

    The best machine method is a router with an upcut bit. Set up with the appropriate guides and dust control, this is quick and extremely accurate, albeit noisy.

    For some it is about the journey and not the destination, and vice versa. For others it is about confidence in skills. If the latter, take the challenge and push yourself to take the risk. You will come out stronger. It is only wood! Still , there is no "right" answer. There will always be those who take "schools" to extremes and preach one method, and there are others who seek to find the best in all systems, develop as many skills as possible, and then use what is appropriate at the time.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 09-27-2015 at 9:25 PM.

  10. #10
    The traditional method is to make tenons 5/16 or 3/8 inches thick. This is what we find on chairs and stools from the 17th and 18th centuries that have stood up for 300 years and more. For a chair, legs and posts are often larger than 1 1/2 but the horizontal members are often 7/8 thick.

  11. #11
    Thanks guys. I appreciate the encouragement, advice and acceptance of my different approach. Maybe I'll keep on trying some of both - drill press and fully manual. I have to square the mortises either way, and that's still going to require some care and skill, even with the drill press hogging out the waste. And I do have a 1/2" Marples - seems a shame not to give that a whirl after Lowell's story.

    Thanks again!
    Fred
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 09-27-2015 at 10:17 PM. Reason: typo
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  12. #12
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    The end justifies the means
    The significant problems we encounter cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them.

    The penalty for inaccuracy is more work

  13. #13
    I swing both ways on this issue, actually. I have a drill press, a hollow chisel morticer, and a nice selection of chisels. Mostly I build things for myself, so I use whatever I feel like when I am in the garage, that is my time.

    Regards,

    Chris

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hale View Post
    The end justifies the means
    That's my philosophy. I sometime cut the tails of "hand cut" dovetails with a bandsaw.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  15. Not to take away the esteemed comments above but, brother, make sawdust in whatever way makes you happy (you did say you LIKED it). No one is gonna judge, its all about the Furniture. I highly doubt anyone is gonna say " Wow, thats beautiful....wait do i sense a drill press was used .........DESTROY THAT ABOMINATION WITH FIRE!!!!!". You were working, didnt have a fancy schmancy 1/2 inch mortise chisel, but a had a nice shiny drill press.....made it happen.

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