New Tool Question

[Jeff Carnes]

Hey all. I'm new here on the forum as well as being new to woodturning. I just bought my first set of tools. I picked up the Crown Pro-PM 5 piece set. I have some sharpening questions. I am curious to see if they are lathe ready out of the box or do they need to be sharpened? Also the spindle and bowl gouge grinds do not appear to be the same angle/shape as the tools I used in the 2 classes I have taken. I do plan to purchase the wolverine jig to go with my low speed grinder. I am wondering what angle I should look for achieving with this jig set up? My current grinder has the white wheels but I plan to pick up the CBN wheels when I get the jig. Any guidance or help would be greatly appreciated!

[Brian Kent]

Hi Jeff. Welcome. If they are ready to use out of the box, they will for sure be dull after 10 minutes of turning.

Yes on the Wolverine jig!

There are a wide variety of angles and shapes for spindle and bowl gouges. This is the guide I used as a starting place: http://thompsonlathetools.com/sharpening.asp

Have a great time and I look forward to reading responses here.

[Jeff Carnes]

Thank you for the reply. Now if I set the Wolverine jig to the 40 degree grinds using the Vari2 jig. Will that also put the side grinds on the gouge? If so should I use the white wheels than go to the CBN wheels or just do it all with CBN wheels?

Also looking for ideas on jaw chucks. I am thinking about the Easy Made Chuck. I have a Jet 1221VS. My main goal when I get confident is game calls. I do plan on pens, bowls, bottle stoppers,bowls and small project kits ect. Just giving my work ideas to help with chuck recommendations.

Thanx again!

[Brian Kent]

When I got my Wolverine people recommended the original Vari-grind Jig. Let's see if they still do. I am completely satisfied with mine. The jig tilts for a smooth transition to the side grind. You can do 100% of the grind on either the white wheels or the CBN. No need to use both.

[Charles Randal Smith]

When I got my Wolverine people recommended the original Vari-grind Jig. Let's see if they still do...

Agree with the using the original Vari-grind jig. I started with the Vari2 jig and found that it wore the centre of the grinding wheel. As well, I couldn't get the flexibility in shaping that I wanted; perhaps if the Oneway documentation had been more fulsome, that wouldn't have been a problem. I then bought the original Varigrind and found it wore the stones in a more even manner and gave me the flexibility of shaping that I wanted. My impression is that it remains the gold standard. My Vari02 is somewhere on my workbench, covered in wood chips. I don't miss it.
Charles

[Keith Westfall]

If you got the white wheels, use them. They work just fine and not a real need to replace them. Get a truing device to keep them flat and they should last a long time. No need to grind hard when touching up your tools...

May get different answers as I have only used the white wheels, and don't need the expense of the CBN as a replacement.
Oh, and yes on the Wolverine setup - quick and easy.

[Bob Hamilton]

The Vari-grind jig (either one, although I have never used the VG2) controls the angle of the tool to the wheel. It does not control the shape of the tool. The operator must do that. It allows YOU to create the side wings in a controlled manner; it doesn't do it for you. As a general rule woodturning gouges and chisels come ground to a basic shape, but not sharpened ready for use unless they are specifically advertised as being sharpened. The same applies to regular woodworking hand chisels, carving tools, bench planes, etc. There are premium brands that do come sharp but they make sure to advertise that they are pre-sharpened.

Take care
Bob

[Thom Sturgill]

Another vote for the original vari-grind. IMO, there are several factors besides the angle that affect getting good, consistent sharpening. These include flute shape, and metal composition/grinding wheel type.

To be controllable, the edge needs to have some convex curve to it. If the flute has curve (parabolic rather than straight sided V) then the edge can be straight when viewed from the side. Most gouges have straight sided flutes and need to be ground to a curve when viewed from the side. This is also fine for parabolic flutes though they should probably be ground a little flatter than straight flutes. For consistent cutting, you need to learn to grind that curve consistently and that curve is controlled by you not the jig!

The angle of the nose and length of the side wings may depend on what you use the gouge for. Spindle detail gouges are ground as sharp as 25 degrees while bottom of the bowl gouges can be as steep as 65 degrees or more and have nearly flat wings (conventional grind). Many professional turners recommend 45 degrees +/- with modest wings while David Ellsworth recommends 60 degrees and fairly long wings. Cindy Drozda uses 40 degrees for everything according to her videos. Jimmy Clewes recommends not to get hung up on exact angles. Consistency is more important to developing the muscle memory than a magic angle.

As to CBN vs White AO wheels - until recently the 'best' turning tools were made from M2 HSS. AO cuts it fine. A few years ago crucible metals (also known as powdered metal or PM) became popular. The carbides formed in these metals give them exceptional wear resistance, but also make sharpening with AO wheels problematic. Examples here are Doug Thompson's V11 and Dave Schweitzer's M42 gouges as well as Carter and Son's M42 gouges. CBN works far better at getting a proper edge on these tools as it can cut the carbides. Cheaper tools and older brands still use M2 HSS, but the cheaper brands tend to not do the hardening/tempering process as well as they should. Trying to learn to cut and sharpen when it REALLY IS the tool's fault is a frustrating experience and it took a training session with the professional trainer replacing my gouge to convince me. I then junked my Harbor Freight starter set and never looked back. The class cost WAY more than the tools did and while I did improve my turning, a lot was due to replacing the junk tools that would not take or keep a proper edge.

Crown does not specify what the metal in their Pro-PM tools is, but the fact that they ARE powdered metal would make me tend to want a CBN wheel for them. I one one Crown-PM, the Ellsworth, and it is one of my go-to gouges and pre CBN I had to hone with a diamond hone to be satisfied with the edge. I still use my diamond hones, but mostly to extend the time between grinds. The tools are usually sharp enough right off the CBN wheel.

[Joe Bradshaw]

Jeff, welcome to the vortex. My first suggestion would be to find your local turning club and get a mentor. Turners love to help newcomers. You will become far more intimate with your grinder than you ever thought you would. Sharpening should almost become automatic. Whereas with a plane, you could use it all day without requiring re-sharpening, but, with a bowl gouge, depending on the wood, you may have to touch up the edge on almost every pass. I also have the Jet 1221VS and I like it. Keep it at my girlfriends house. I like the Oneway Talon chucks for these smaller lathes. In my biased opinion, they are the best chucks on the market. Good luck on your journey.
Joe

[Jeff Carnes]

Thanks everyone for all the information!