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Thread: I Need Help Fixing a Problem With How to Attach Breadboards to My Table Top

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Brown View Post
    Thanks guys, I am going to give this a go today. I am not worried at all about boring the holes deep, it's just this slotting that has me a bit concerned because of the depth. Provided I don't screw this up (which is highly possible, lol), everything from here on out is a virtual cakewalk.

    Since my material is 6/4 thick, should I risk going with a 1" dowel since my breadboard width is causing some concern, or should I stay with a 3/4" dowel?

    Thanks.
    I would stick with the 3/4 inch dowels - you don't want the space between dowels and surface to get too thin.

    Back to an earlier question - what tools do you have to work with? Plunge router, drill press, forstner bits, etc. I suggest reconsidering the classic approach shown by Glen, other wise, you could mill slots for splines in both the top and the breadboard?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cooper View Post
    Maybe a dumb question but why would anyone want to ever use breadboard ends if the edge of the table is often times going to not align with the ends of the breadboard due to expansion and contraction? Seems like it would look terrible and wife would complain about the discontinuity
    200 years old and still flat;

    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I would stick with the 3/4 inch dowels - you don't want the space between dowels and surface to get too thin.

    Back to an earlier question - what tools do you have to work with? Plunge router, drill press, forstner bits, etc. I suggest reconsidering the classic approach shown by Glen, other wise, you could mill slots for splines in both the top and the breadboard?
    Ok, I will stick with 3/4" dowels. Sorry about missing your earlier question. I have plunge router, router bits, router table, table saw, circular saw, etc... My plan was to drill all of the dowel holes to size and then use the router to create the slots where necessary, but now my issue is finding a router bit that will go deep enough (at least 3") that I don't have to chisel forever.

    My only hesitation with the spline method is keeping the line straight on both pieces. This hickory table top is heavy and fairly unwieldy, so I'm not sure how I could route that deep enough effectively while maintaining a straight line.

    I'm just trying to split the difference between assembling the table top in a manner that won't ruin it over time and not trying to do something too complicated/risky because I wasn't aware of this breadboard issue and therefore didn't plan for it.

    I'm feeling pretty stupid/upset/worried right now. Lesson = learned for sure.
    Last edited by Anthony Brown; 10-06-2015 at 8:45 AM.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Brown View Post
    ...because of the breadboard's tendency to move/shift....
    The breadboard itself will 'move' very little. The width may change fractionally with seasonal %RH, but there is nothing to constrain its movement, so no issues. Its length will change little if at all.

    The plank top of the table is what WILL change with %RH. If you figure out where you are now width-wise (during construction), then cut the BBE to such a length that it reflects the average width of the top. If you get it right, the BBE extends a little proud during dry season, and the top is proud during wet season. All very normal. And it keeps the top flat.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    The breadboard itself will 'move' very little. The width may change fractionally with seasonal %RH, but there is nothing to constrain its movement, so no issues. Its length will change little if at all.

    The plank top of the table is what WILL change with %RH. If you figure out where you are now width-wise (during construction), then cut the BBE to such a length that it reflects the average width of the top. If you get it right, the BBE extends a little proud during dry season, and the top is proud during wet season. All very normal. And it keeps the top flat.
    Yeah, that's what I meant, but thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm sure all of this is normal, I just wasn't bright enough/didn't have enough knowledge to realize this and account for it. I have built a lot of smaller things out of wood and never had an issue and never accounted for expansion/contraction, but this table/breadboard issue is a different beast and it looks like I missed the mark.

    I'm just trying to correct my blunder and mitigate the possible issues as safely as possible if that makes sense....
    Last edited by Anthony Brown; 10-06-2015 at 9:01 AM.

  6. #36
    Wow, I didn't realize people were using such beefy connectors for their BB ends. If this were me, I'd use 1/2" dowels. Drilling precise, bigger holes is always trickier for me than I anticipate.

    I'm not saying it's what's best for everyone, but I haven't had need for more.
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 10-06-2015 at 9:14 AM.

  7. #37
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    This is an interesting thread and lots of good info, I do have a question and hope I'm not hijacking the OP's thread. I'm also building a dining table (42"x92") but mine will have an apron to help hold down the table top. My ends will be exposed with no breadboards, will this give me issues?

  8. #38
    Not to beat this to death, but since you have a router.... Maybe? (You might have to stand on the bench.)
    router_cut_spline.jpg
    BBE spline slot could be cut on router table.
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 10-06-2015 at 9:38 AM. Reason: climbing required??

  9. #39
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    When you listed the tools, what is included in etc? Drill press? You'll want to make a guide for drilling the top. Don't attempt to freehand it with a drill. I'd use a block of maple, drill a straight hole with the DP, and cut a rabbet on the TS so you can clamp it to the top. The rabbet should be cut so the hole is centered in the table top.

    For the bbe, use the guide or just the DP, or just router the slot.

    To router the slots, I'd use a router guide like this one (pic taken from a tool run article).
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #40
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    Hoang, bbe's can help keep a table top flat but I think there is some debate as to how much it actually does.

    I use them for whatever structural aid they are, and more so for aesthetic purposes.
    Last edited by Matt Day; 10-06-2015 at 9:45 AM.

  11. #41
    I will admit up front to not being a fan of dowels. I have a doweling jig but it is admittedly a cheap one but I just have not had good luck with dowels. It seems like the grain in the wood always pushes the bit and I don't get a hole where I want. I've only worked a little with Hickory but it seems to have wilder grain than most. I would be more comfortable with a router not moving around.

    You could easily put a spline in both pieces to align them and use some screws to hold the bb end in place. I have a sofa table I did this for based upon plans in fine woodworking. The outboard screws are in elongated holes. All the screws are covered by decorative plugs.

    The other way to do this I would consider is to use the router to remove at least an inch from the tables length on each end to create a tenon. Mortise the bb end and glue only the middle.

    I think the dowels will work IF you can keep the holes where you want them. I doubt that will be successful but I hope I am wrong. I am sure that a spline with screws or a routed tenon will work.

  12. #42
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    Good call Jim. Might make sense to have the bbe's thicker by a bit to account for non-perfectly aligned holes. Plane them to flat when done.

  13. #43
    For those suggesting going the spline route, how deep am I going to have to spline to get this to work? My concern with the dowel route is routing deep enough for the slots, and it seems routing deep enough may be an issue for the spline as well. At least with the dowel route I can drill deep enough to get the dowels in there, then my only issue is creating space for the slots.

    I'm not opposed to anything at this point, I just want to make sure I don't mess up the one shot that I get at this.
    Last edited by Anthony Brown; 10-06-2015 at 9:57 AM.

  14. #44
    Anthony,

    You are limited by router bits to about 1/2 inch deep cuts for the spline. I would probably make the spline 1/2 thick. That would be a couple cuts which would be easy to make with a router. Here are some bits like I am suggesting:

    http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...s/bt_slot.html

    That length spline would not be reliable to keep the breadboard end from tilting, especially when it is only glued in the middle. That is the job of the screws through the breadboard end. That is a long screw, you might even want to use a few 1/4 lag bolts. Three would probably be enough on each end. The slotted holes on the ends will be a bit of a pain but they won't show, they will be under plugs. The thing the spline will do is to keep the breadboard surface aligned with the table top at the location of the joint.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dwight View Post
    ...limited by router bits to about 1/2 inch deep cuts for the spline...
    I've cut 3" deep in cherry with 1/2" spiral up-cut bit, with multiple passes, plunging ~1/4" per pass.

    But, best recommendation is probably to stick with a method that you're comfortable with. Or, practice until you are.
    It would kill me to wreck that much quality hardwood (...at least my wife would, when she found out I bought more lumber).
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 10-06-2015 at 11:12 AM. Reason: comfort level

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