I Need Help Fixing a Problem With How to Attach Breadboards to My Table Top

[Matt Day]

A forstner bit and a hand drill aren't going to work for getting parallel holes. Neither is a spade bit.

Using Jims suggested bid and a guide will be much better, but it will be tough to make the guide without a DP.

If you try with just a hand drill without some sort of drill guide you are in for disappointment.

Because of the lack of drill press, I think you should scrap the dowel idea. Do the spline and be done with it.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Anthony,
There is an old saying that "A camel is a horse designed by a committee." I am afraid we are collectively turning your table into a camel, or worse.

The one constant seems to be that we'd all do this differently, based on tools at hand, experience, design ethos, and comfort level. It may be small comfort, but even though we're not you, most have been where you are. Whatever your poison, practice it until you're comfortable. Even if you have to buy some 2x4s and mock up a top with any tools, jigs, and fixtures, it will be money well spent.

...Patience and good luck!!

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kent, with your doweling through the tenons where you going all the way through the BB? or just doing a peg from the bottom of the BB so it was in keeping with the concealment of the connection just like on the end of the BB? Rick

All the way through - top down [with scrap backer to prevent tearout]. Then, the pegs went in the same way - top down.

Rummage around to see Drawboring explained.

EDIT: RIck - a short answer that did not really answer.

The table was one piece of a commission for an entire dining room in A+C style. Table, 5 side chairs, 2 arm chairs, and 3 side tables.

Through-tenons abounded in the joinery. As did pinned tenons, with the pins showing.

So - the pins/pegs showing on the BBE was keeping with the overall oevure.

[Kent A Bathurst]

IN a quick scan through this thread, top-to-bottom, I think we have accomplished our objective: With all the different methods and conflicting details we have complicated the heck out of this to the point that the OP cannot help but have trouble. I believe that parts of the advice are completely nutso, but then, that's no doubt what they think of mine.

Our work here is done.

[Chris Padilla]

I'd like to invite the [OP] to start a new thread and the only requirement is if you posted in this thread, you cannot post in the new thread.

[Matt Day]

I'd like to invite the [OP] to start a new thread and the only requirement is if you posted in this thread, you cannot post in the new thread.

Great idea. I'd be glad to not post. Thanks

[Malcolm McLeod]

Perhaps all advice threads should have a 'right way' branch and a 'wrong way' branch?

This will be self-governing of course. Each respondent chooses which side to post their....aahhhh, wait .... this might not work. Never mind.

[Anthony Brown]

Ha, ha, you guys are too much! Actually I loved hearing about all the different methods to solve my issue. What works for someone may not work for someone else, and a different perspective on things is never a bad thing. I did feel a bit of information overload a few times, but that's not a bad thing, I was just trying to process too many things at once, while overthinking others. I prefer being on forums where people actually HELP, rather than call you names and tell you you screwed up (although I have a feeling at the end of this some of you guys may do that anyway, lol). It's all good. You guys have helped more than you know.

While I am at it, I have an update. I have drilled all of the holes into the breadboards only using the Forstner bit. I tried using the auger bit that Tim Dwight suggested and it darn near broke my wrist. I have a fairly powerful corded drill, but once that screw head from that auger bit got into the wood, it immediately stopped the drill and almost sent me to the ER. I tried it again, got the same result, and decided to scrap that idea. Maybe I need a super-powered drill, or I was just doing something wrong, I'm not sure. Anyway, as I said, my holes are drilled and they are actually fairly straight. I'm sure they are not perfect, but they are better than I expected.

My biggest challenge/hurdle right now is making sure the holes that I will drill into my table line up exactly. Does anyone have any tips/help on how I can mark the exact locations for where to drill my dowel holes in the table portion? I had found some of these (http://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-534...s=dowel+center) and was on cloud 9 until I realized that no one makes them for 3/4" dowels, so now I am back to square one. Before I do anymore drilling, I want to make sure I have as accurate of a mark as possible for these other holes.

[Andrew Hughes]

Now you just need to figure out how to make a hole in the dead center of your 3/4 inch dowel.Then stick the center finder in it.Congrats to your sucess so far.

[Prashun Patel]

Pat, my advice is wrong. I deleted that post. The spline(s) should be oriented across the joint, just as an integral or floating tenon would be. I deleted all the other posts referencing my wrong suggestion to make the spline long-grain, lest someone in the future is misled.

[Pat Barry]

Ha, ha, you guys are too much! Actually I loved hearing about all the different methods to solve my issue. What works for someone may not work for someone else, and a different perspective on things is never a bad thing. I did feel a bit of information overload a few times, but that's not a bad thing, I was just trying to process too many things at once, while overthinking others. I prefer being on forums where people actually HELP, rather than call you names and tell you you screwed up (although I have a feeling at the end of this some of you guys may do that anyway, lol). It's all good. You guys have helped more than you know.

While I am at it, I have an update. I have drilled all of the holes into the breadboards only using the Forstner bit. I tried using the auger bit that Tim Dwight suggested and it darn near broke my wrist. I have a fairly powerful corded drill, but once that screw head from that auger bit got into the wood, it immediately stopped the drill and almost sent me to the ER. I tried it again, got the same result, and decided to scrap that idea. Maybe I need a super-powered drill, or I was just doing something wrong, I'm not sure. Anyway, as I said, my holes are drilled and they are actually fairly straight. I'm sure they are not perfect, but they are better than I expected.

My biggest challenge/hurdle right now is making sure the holes that I will drill into my table line up exactly. Does anyone have any tips/help on how I can mark the exact locations for where to drill my dowel holes in the table portion? I had found some of these (http://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-534...s=dowel+center) and was on cloud 9 until I realized that no one makes them for 3/4" dowels, so now I am back to square one. Before I do anymore drilling, I want to make sure I have as accurate of a mark as possible for these other holes.

OK - good problem - let me ask a couple questions:
1) is the breadboard end the correct thickness or over sized in terms of thickness (ie: you were planning to sand / plane to match the tabletop thickness after assembly?
2) did you measure to find the center line thickness of the breadboard and then drill the holes so they were basically on center?
3) are those holes perpendicular?
Depending on 1 and 2 there are different solutions, although similar to what Andrew said, you could put a small finish nail into the end of a piece of dowel and use that as the center finder for your matching holes. You could use a small nail and cut / trim / file a point on it

[Anthony Brown]

Anthony,
There is an old saying that "A camel is a horse designed by a committee." I am afraid we are collectively turning your table into a camel, or worse.

The one constant seems to be that we'd all do this differently, based on tools at hand, experience, design ethos, and comfort level. It may be small comfort, but even though we're not you, most have been where you are. Whatever your poison, practice it until you're comfortable. Even if you have to buy some 2x4s and mock up a top with any tools, jigs, and fixtures, it will be money well spent.

...Patience and good luck!!

Thanks Malcolm,

It is a small comfort to know that others have been here as well. I am definitely someone who is always very hard on myself, so I have been kind of beating myself up over this as I attempt to get this right. I guess sometimes I feel like all of you guys were born great at this, which I am sure is the case in some instances, but you guys also learned by making mistakes just like me.

Thanks for the tips!

OK - good problem - let me ask a couple questions:
1) is the breadboard end the correct thickness or over sized in terms of thickness (ie: you were planning to sand / plane to match the tabletop thickness after assembly?
2) did you measure to find the center line thickness of the breadboard and then drill the holes so they were basically on center?
3) are those holes perpendicular?
Depending on 1 and 2 there are different solutions, although similar to what Andrew said, you could put a small finish nail into the end of a piece of dowel and use that as the center finder for your matching holes. You could use a small nail and cut / trim / file a point on it

Hi Pat,

1. The breadboard is the same thickness as the table. This was another error on my part, and it was made because I originally thought this would be an all glue-up assembly. Had I known about the issue with the breadboard assembly earlier, I would have left it a bit thicker.

2. Yup, that is exactly what I did.

3. For the most part, yes they are perpendicular, but there is a little variation.

I have been searching all day and night for parts to assemble a jig idea that I have similar to the dowel centers that I posted a link to earlier. I just now finally found all of the parts that I need and it looks like this jig will be the closest thing possible to dowel centers. I don't think I will be able to mark the dowel locations more accurately than this jig will, IF the jig works (which it looks like it will).

I will post a picture of my homemade "dowel centers" if they work like I am thinking they will.

[Chris Padilla]

A good positive attitude and the desire to learn is all you need so you're doing well.

Take a gander here to see if you find anything that might help you: click

[Brian Holcombe]

Alternatively you can set your center on a marking gauge and transfer it to the opposing board. I havent used a dowel center or transfer punch in about 5 years.

You can make a marking gauge quick and easy, or buy one (even easier )

[Anthony Brown]

A good positive attitude and the desire to learn is all you need so you're doing well.

Take a gander here to see if you find anything that might help you: click

Thanks man, it is very much appreciated for sure!

So I have another update, and the news is mostly good. After running back-and-forth all day to the hardware store buying parts for my homemade dowel center, I finally got it built and functioning how I wanted it to. Below you will see a screenshot of the final result. Basically it is a 3/4" diameter shower door wheel with a 1" long screw through it and a 1" washer with a nut attached to it. I just dropped the shower door wheel side into the holes on my breadboard, put a glob of red paint on the tip of the screws, lined it up with the marks on my table, and gave my breadboard a few hits with a hammer. That left a nice red indented dot on my table ends marking where the center of the dowel holes should be.

DOWEL CENTER:

dowel-center.jpg

Once I finished with that I drilled all of the dowel holes in the table. I tested my holes on one side of the table with some shorter dowels and they are lining up pretty darn good. I'm not going to get too excited because I haven't tested the fit with the longer dowels I will be using for final assembly, but so far things are looking pretty good. The only bad news that I have is that when I began routing my slots in the breadboard, my router jumped yet again and made one of my holes/slots much bigger than it should be, and now the dowel is pretty loose. I was routing deep, but this was after taking a few shallower passes already. I am going to have to be super careful with my router from here on out.

I'm not sweating it too much, as I was thinking that I could basically cut some thin and wide "shims" and glue them to the top and bottom of the inside of the slotted hole to snug it back up. What do you guys thing about that? Do you guys have any better ideas? If so, I'd love to hear them.

Also, I was going to glue the 4 middle dowels into the breadboard and leave 2 on each end of the breadboard slotted, so that would give me 4 glued and 4 loose/slotted dowels per breadboard. I'd just personally prefer 4 snug and glued dowels over 2, but if that's not a good idea, then I will follow you guy's advice. What do you guys think of that idea?

Below is an image showing my table planks along with the dowel locations. This should give you a very good idea of where the dowels are located and if gluing the 4 middle ones would be OK.

DOWEL LOCATIONS:

dowel-locations.jpg

Tomorrow I am going to CAREFULLY finish routing the slots and then I will be doing a legit test fit (with longer dowels) on both sides to see exactly where I am at.