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Thread: I Need Help Fixing a Problem With How to Attach Breadboards to My Table Top

  1. #1

    I Need Help Fixing a Problem With How to Attach Breadboards to My Table Top

    I am building a 72" x 40" x 6/4 solid Hickory table top. I have already glued together the planks to get the width for my table top, but I have not attached the breadboards yet. My plan was to glue the breadboards to the rest of the table top just like I did with the other planks, but after doing some more research I have found that may not the best option. I have built and finished other (much smaller) projects where I glued together wood cross grain and I have never had an issue with expansion and contraction ruining the piece; However, it seems like due to the size of this project if I were to glue the breadboards to the table, I could have some issues with them expanding/contracting and messing up the table (FYI, the table will always be stored in a temperature controlled environment).

    I am kind of stuck on how to proceed. Given that this is solid Hickory and most of my table top is already assembled, doing any kind of routing table modifications to the ends of the top (for mortise and tenon for example) is going to be next to impossible. For the breadboards, it may be doable since they are much smaller and not attached yet, but I would have to see. Also, I can't really cut into the assembled part of the table length-wise, as that would really shorten the length (I don't have much extra on the ends to trim off to get my exact measurements), so that poses a problem as well. I was all set to just trim off the little bit of excess length and then glue on my breadboards, but then some happenstance internet searching has thrown me all of.

    Does anybody have any ideas on how I should proceed, or am I pretty much screwed?

    Once the breadboards are attached, everything else should be pretty easy, as I am heading in a totally different direction for the legs, and I am very well-versed with the finishing portion of the project

    Any help given would be great. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Since mortise and tenon will be difficult, I would suggest attaching the breadboards with dowels. With the top being 40" wide, I'd do 8 dowels. Glue all the dowels into place in already assembled top. On the breadboards, drill the outer two dowel holes on each side oversize (like a slot) and don't glue them. The center 4 dowel holes should be drilled the same size as the dowel and should be glued. If you use a large enough dowel, you could then pin them with smaller dowels from the top as well. Kind of hard to explain in text. If you watch the Wood Whisperer video where he builds a Rustic Outdoor Table (episode 207 and 208?) he does this method with a Domino. Same concept with the dowels. Good luck!

  3. #3
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    In your case you will want to attach at the center so that movement is out toward the edges. Similar example but, attached at the front to maintain that look and allowed to expand toward the rear.

    Media Cabinet (180).jpgMedia Cabinet (121).jpgMedia Cabinet (117).jpgMedia Cabinet (125).jpgMedia Cabinet (126).JPG

    decorative spline is attached to the top and floats in the breadboard. Front dowel fits snug, middle is in a slot and rear is in a longer slot.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  4. #4
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    The purpose of a breadboard end is to maintain the flatness of the table while allowing it to expand and contract with the seasonal change in humidity. Your house may be temperature controlled but most likely it is not humidity controlled, and even if it is it would be considered bad practice to lock in the wood over such a distance.

    I digress.

    What you could do is to make a very long spline, or floating tenon, and secure it in the center of the table. This will allow the table to expand and contract from the center on out to the edges.

    What tools do you have available to you?
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  5. #5
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    The dowel solution is a good one. Do you know anyone that has a Domino cutter? You could do the same thing, fixed dominos in the middle and oversized mortises on the ends.

  6. #6
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    Brian, you suggest a very long floating tenon, but that should only be glued at the center of the main top, and can be glued the entire breadboard right?

  7. #7
    Quick rule-of-thumb is 1/4" of movement per foot of width (flat sawn) or 1/8" of movement per foot of width (quarter sawn). FWW had article about this in issue #187 (I think), so if you can access I'd review specifics for Hickory, or search web for calculators to verify my cerebral flatulence:

    If you use rule-of-thumb and assume the absolute worst case: dry wood now, table is at seasonal minimum width (40"), and breadboard is at 40". You could estimate the table will 'grow' in width by up to ~7/8". Or, shrink ~7/8" if you assume top is at maximum moisture content now. If you fix the breadboard to center of the table and allow both ends to float, you need to allow for ~7/16" movement - half on each edge. (Typical %RH extremes are winter & summer.) Don't know your location or typical humidity, but since it's fall, the reality is probably currently in the middle. So you could figure that you need to allow for ~7/32" movement at extreme table edges. This allowance is proportionally reduced as you move away from the table edges.

    There are several methods mentioned by others to mechanically fasten the breadboard, you just need to make sure it has the necessary 'breathing' room.

  8. #8
    Thanks for all of the help guys. I am going to go with the the dowel method that Matt suggested. I am going to do it exactly like the Wood Whisperer did it except with 3/4" dowels instead. It is going to be a bit tricky because I will probably have to router the "slop" holes wider in the horizontal direction for the holes that need it for expansion purposes.

    I will update you guys with my progress!

  9. #9
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    1.25" x 44" x 84" QSWO table top - Some visual aids to my response:

    Full-width tenon:

    Dec 1 025.jpg


    There will be a 1/2" deep continuous tenon, with stub tenons every so often. Notice markout for tenons/waste - there is a 1" bit coming out of the end. This is the continuous tenon that will sit in a blind mortise slot in the BB end, to help keep the table top stable for full width. Brian H is dead-nuts on this point - see his post above.

    Dec 1 026.jpg


    Whack away. See how many different tools you can enlist to perform this seemingly simple task.:

    Dec 1 030.jpg


    Jig up, and route the stopped mortise to house the continuous tenon:

    Dec 1 052.jpg



    Align the BB, and mark out the locations for the stub tenons:

    Dec 4 002.jpg


    Holes in stubs: center is round, others are elongated.

    Nov 21 005.jpg


    Off to mortiser with the BB ends, to make the plunges for the stubs:

    Dec 4 003.jpg

    Whack it together, plane it smooth. Bronze #3 is the weapon of choice on this step. You can see the chalk on the table top - the game is barely remove the chalk, then slam on the brakes.

    Dec 4 005.jpg

    I don't show drilling the holes thru the BB Ends to match with the holes/slots.
    I don't show riving the QSWO bits to make chunks to pound thru the dowel plate to make the dowels.
    I don't show the drawbore process.........


    Ummm.....a little out of sequence - I dry-assembled the finished BB ends, then drilled the holes, then elongated the holes on the tenons..........

    But you get the idea..........

    FWIW - My Dad asked me "how do you make the stuff you make?" So I did a detailed picto-history, from rough lumber to a useable piece of stuff...............
    When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Day View Post
    Brian, you suggest a very long floating tenon, but that should only be glued at the center of the main top, and can be glued the entire breadboard right?
    Sure, the grain is going the same direction.

    I like Kent's approach the best And of course his tassel loafers
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Sure, the grain is going the same direction.

    I like Kent's approach the best And of course his tassel loafers
    Dude -Puhleeeese - tassel with false kilties, low vamp. Get it right, eh?

    THose in the photo are Johnston-Murphy - I have 3 identical pair - those are the shoes I used doing plant layouts, etc. But.........tassels with false kilties................

    My absolute favorites from Cole-Haan.

    When they discontinued my model, I bought 1 cordovan and 3 black. Wore out 1 black. Black 2 has been sent back to C-H twice for rehab - they do a wonderful job. Black 3 still in OEM box with cedar trees. He who dies with the best shoes wins. Screw clamps.

    I am more of a shoe addict than I am a tool addict. Now that I don't work professionally anymore, I figure the 20 pair of C-H dress shoes I have will last several lifetimes, so I will probably start wearing them in the shop......... Those nice, thin, Italian soles ought to do a nice job in the shop, no?

    Do you think I need to run them down to the ATL airport for a shine every so often, or just let them acclimate????
    Last edited by Kent A Bathurst; 10-05-2015 at 6:34 PM.
    When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.

  12. #12
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    I used a spline joint with elongated peg holes (thru the spine) / Here's the video I made..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BpL0hEZzuI

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Sure, the grain is going the same direction.

    I like Kent's approach the best And of course his tassel loafers
    Thanks Brian. I missed the tassels and had to go back to look .
    .
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  14. #14
    So my drill finally bit the dust, both the clutch and the batteries. I have had this thing for years, and it's a fairly cheap drill, so I guess it's about time. My plan tomorrow is to buy another drill, and then get started. My breadboard is about 6-3/4" wide, and 6/4 thick, so I chose 3" L x 3/4" thick Oak dowels to use for joining the breadboards and table. I'm going to follow Matt's method by drilling 1-1/2" deep holes in the table and breadboard and gluing the 4 middle dowels to the breadboard. I am going to leave the outermost 4 dowels unglued as well as add some extra horizontal space around them to allow for movement.

    Does that sound about right?

    Also, really quickly, I make sure that the glue stays just on the dowels and I should not glue faces of the wood itself in the middle, correct?
    Last edited by Anthony Brown; 10-05-2015 at 7:29 PM.

  15. #15
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    Back in my Mad Men days, it was Cole Haan and Britches of Georgetown...Lenox Mall, I believe. Had those guys send suits long after I moved.
    Last edited by Phil Mueller; 10-05-2015 at 11:44 PM.

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