Veritas Shooting Plane Tolerance

[Stew Hagerty]

Hey all... It's been quite a while since I posted. The last year or so hasn't been great. Anyway, that has absolutely nothing to do with this post.

A couple years ago out in Iowa at Handworks I so a thing of beauty. It was the plastic prototype for a Veritas Shooting Plane. Now the Stanley 51 is sweet, as is the Lie-Nielsen version of it. But I really like the the new approach that Lee Valley took. One of my favorite things about all their planes is the use of set screws to help position the blade. I also like the Norris adjuster. But the biggy is the adjustable mouth. Plus, no offense Tom, I just like the feel of Veritas planes. They fit me.

So anyway, flash forward to today, I finally took the plunge and got one (complete with the PM-V11 blade). It arrived today and I felt like a kid on Christmas opening it up. I started cleaning it up and, having just watched Chuck Bender's video, I put my Woodpeckers Try Square on it and was actually shocked to see that it wobbled. It appeared that the plane was out of square. Now, I trust my Woodpeckers Try Square, but I pulled out my Starrett Double Square to double check and got the same results. So I checked each of them on my Woodpeckers Precision Angle Reference Plate which clearly indicates angle from 0 to 55 degrees in 1/4 degree increments, and both squares were... well square. Now I was completely convinced already but I dug out my "in the box, only used once before" Bridge City TS-2V2 Try Square and got the exact same wobble. Finally, with the utmost care and reverence I checked it with my 150+/- year old (and still perfectly dead accurate) Mathieson & Son Try Square and guess what? Yeah, still out of square. So I pulled out a Bevel a Bevel Gauge and checked it against the before referenced Angle Reference Plate and it is a quarter of a degree off. Instead of 90 degrees, it's 89.75 degrees.
OK, I don't know what is an acceptable tolerance so I call. The guy I talked to said that they talk in thousandths of an inch, so I got out my feeler gauge and with my Woodpecker's Square I measured the gap along the face (the one with the blade) referenced from the base I got anywhere from .003" to .005" of a gap depending on the width of the face. Some parts of the face are wider than others, and naturally the gap gets wider the further away you measure from the reference edge. He said I could return it and they would send me another, but that it may be exactly the same.

So, here's my question:
What is an acceptable tolerance? He said I their limit was typically 3-4 thousandths, but if I exchange it and the next one is just the same what have I achieved? Before you all start saying that I can sand & sand & sand until I get it perfect, I am disabled and do not have the strength or stamina to do that. No, a quarter of a degree isn't much, but is it enough that you will see it in an assembled project? I mean, assuming I build it accurate, the shooting board and the plane should give me perfect 90 degree joints in one direction. Rob, if you see this, I am in absolutely NO WAY disparaging your products!!! I love your stuff, and have spent my fair share of money on your things to prove it. Your Low-Angle Block Plane with the Tote & Knob options is my favorite plane. I reach for it more than any other.

I don't know, what would you guys & gals do?

[Tom M King]

Mine was dead on square and straight on both sides to start with, and has stayed that way. I'd call LV, and I'm sure they will exchange it. Three thou sounds like a lot to me. That's the thickness of a piece of paper, and I regularly take shavings a third of that with mine.

[Chris Griggs]

I agree, 3 to 5 thou sounds out of spec. I think LN and LV both advertise 1.5 thou. Have them send you a replacement.

[glenn bradley]

That would definitely not work for me. Sorry you got a guy from the gardening department to answer your call. Lee Valley supplies a return label right in the box. Wrap 'er up and ask for a replacement. Easy-Peasy.

[Mike Cherry]

I gotta agree with the guys on this one. This planes sole purpose is to shoot 90 degrees. Your not at 90. It sucks but I think you'll be happier in the end if you get a replacement. Let us know how it goes mate!

[Stew Hagerty]

I called back and got someone that wasn't a guy

from the gardening department - Glenn Bradley

. In fact "she" was a guy at all. So she is going to have their head of quality control (or something very similar) call me on Tuesday, Monday is Canadian Thanksgiving. She said that he, I think she said his name was Glen, would hand pick one as a replacement for me, and be the one to inspect my return.
I will let you all know how it goes.

[Jim Belair]

I agree, 3 to 5 thou sounds out of spec. I think LN and LV both advertise 1.5 thou. Have them send you a replacement.

If their spec is 3-4 thou as they told you I suspect the assumption is you'll correct using the lateral adjustment? I'm just asking- I don't usually work to such close tolerances.

[Tom M King]

That sounds more like I would expect.

[Jim Koepke]

It is close to impossible to catch a small error on every piece made. There may have been a small ship in the milling machine when your plane's sole was mounted for machining.

An exchange from a company that stands behind their product is as much as one could ask.

It is a shame that small errors get shipped, but it happens.

jtk

[Mike Gottlieb]

After reading this thread I checked my LV shooting plane with two different Starrett engineers squares. Mine was dead on at 90 degrees for the full length of the sole. I have been using this plane since introduction and just love it. Contact LV and I am sure they will make it right.
Mike

[Stew Hagerty]

It is close to impossible to catch a small error on every piece made. There may have been a small ship in the milling machine when your plane's sole was mounted for machining.

An exchange from a company that stands behind their product is as much as one could ask.

It is a shame that small errors get shipped, but it happens.

jkt

Absolutely Jim. This kind of thing falls into the "shit happens" category. As I said, Lee Valley/Veritas is an amazing company with amazing people and amazing products. I basically just didn't know what was considered acceptable.

[Adam Cruea]

Hrm, I did not see that on the Spacez of Facez.

Don't be surprised if you get your replacement before actually shipping the bunk piece back. I've had to replace a couple of cap irons and before I got off my duff to the UPS store, the replacements were at my door.

[Stew Hagerty]

Hrm, I did not see that on the Spacez of Facez.

Don't be surprised if you get your replacement before actually shipping the bunk piece back. I've had to replace a couple of cap irons and before I got off my duff to the UPS store, the replacements were at my door.

Yeah Adam, I expect that might just happen. They were closed today for Canadian Thanksgiving, but their QC guy'll be calling me tomorrow.

[Stew Hagerty]

Hrm, I did not see that on the Spacez of Facez.

Don't be surprised if you get your replacement before actually shipping the bunk piece back. I've had to replace a couple of cap irons and before I got off my duff to the UPS store, the replacements were at my door.

Well Adam you must be psychic. I spoke with their person on Tuesday and was told unequivocally that anything not 90 degrees was not acceptable. They said that they would check by hand to be sure to send me one that was dead on. Oh, and there would be a mailing label with it for me to return the original one.
Well it arrived today. I pulled out that Bridge City TS-2V2 and it looked perfect. For kicks, I set my bevel on it and checked it against my Woodpeckers Angle Reference Plate and it looks as close to 90 degrees as I am able to measure. So I popped the PM-V11 blade that I had honed to razor sharpness while I was waiting for the plane. And yes, for your information, I do mean razor sharp. I always test blades, chisels, whatever by shaving the hairs on my arm. if it doesn't do as good a job as my 4-blade from the Dollar Shave Club, then it's not sharp enough. I adjusted the 3 set screws to align the blade perfectly, I set the mouth to about as fine an opening as any plane I own, locked everything down and was ready to give it a try. Now, I also bought the 16" track (Rob Lee, if you read this I think 16" is about the bare minimum for a shooting board. On the other hand 24" like the larger track is too long in my book. If it was up to me, I'd offer a 20". I think it'd be just perfect) but I have not yet built a new shooting board for it yet so I pulled out my old one to give the plane a test drive.
I love it... nuf said.
Here are pictures of the new arrival:

Veritas Shooting Plane 02 Small.jpgVeritas Shooting Plane 01 Small.jpgVeritas Shooting Plane 03 Small.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

Glad to hear it all came out well.

Thanks for letting us know.

jtk