Picking my wattage: getting conflicting information from sales reps

[Raphael Weil]

Hi all,

I've narrowed it down to 2 vendors, Epilog vs Trotec. I had some conflicting advice from reps with regards to the impact of the wattage I'll choose on my raster speeds. Based on all the old threads I've read on here, I'm now quite certain that the difference in rastering speed between a 50W Speedy 300, a 60W and an 80W is going to be quite significant (one vendor told me a 50 would be fine for mostly rastering). Naturally the price is also much more significant.

Can someone give me an order of magnitude with regards to the speed difference I could expect between 50, 60 and 80? I suppose the way I see it, the 50 and 60W Trotec is so much faster than everyone else in the business that it will suit my production needs. I don't intend to rent out time on my machines, so I'm not even sure I can justify an 80W at this stage. I guess my other question is how hard is it to upgrade it to 80W in 2 years once my business does justify it?

[Dan Hintz]

Since the Trotecs are roughly double the raster speed of most other machines on the market, you want the extra power whenever possible. In rough terms, the energy that hits the substrate for an 80W Trotec is equivalent to a 40W "other" when you're comparing 100% speed on both. Now, 40W is fine for engraving things like anodized aluminum... but what if you need a darker burn on something like wood? 40W can seem a bit confining, which means slowing down a bit. Either way, the increased speed means you want as much power as possible... get the 80W, if you can afford it.

[Raphael Weil]

Since the Trotecs are roughly double the raster speed of most other machines on the market, you want the extra power whenever possible. In rough terms, the energy that hits the substrate for an 80W Trotec is equivalent to a 40W "other" when you're comparing 100% speed on both. Now, 40W is fine for engraving things like anodized aluminum... but what if you need a darker burn on something like wood? 40W can seem a bit confining, which means slowing down a bit. Either way, the increased speed means you want as much power as possible... get the 80W, if you can afford it.

So by your analogy, a 60W Trotec is going to be about on par with a 50W Helix, speed-wise?

[Scott Shepherd]

It's more complicated than that Raphael. The answer is "It depends". On some materials, they would be about the same speed, period. On other materials, the Trotec would be considerably faster. Every material has a minimum amount of power it takes to engrave. If that minimum power is above a certain number then the difference between the two becomes small or none. If the number is lower, then the difference becomes greater.

It all depends on what you plan to engrave. If it's wood, I'd say you won't see a huge time savings. If it's anodized aluminum, I'd say you'll see a difference. There is no cut and dry, one size fits all, answer for this.

[Raphael Weil]

It's more complicated than that Raphael. The answer is "It depends". On some materials, they would be about the same speed, period. On other materials, the Trotec would be considerably faster. Every material has a minimum amount of power it takes to engrave. If that minimum power is above a certain number then the difference between the two becomes small or none. If the number is lower, then the difference becomes greater.

It all depends on what you plan to engrave. If it's wood, I'd say you won't see a huge time savings. If it's anodized aluminum, I'd say you'll see a difference. There is no cut and dry, one size fits all, answer for this.

Now THAT is the answer Epilog gave me, and why I was so confused by all the research and the Trotec pitch. I'm engraving wood almost exclusively, and Epilog was nice enough to try and not upsell me, saying the 50w would honestly perform admirably there. I've found using an FSL that often my results are coming at 35-55% power to begin with, so I'm not burning very deep to start. Scott would you say the 50W laser is completely adequate for my needs?

Thanks as always gang.

[Scott Shepherd]

I really couldn't answer that. I don't know your products or your plan. The more power, the faster you can remove wood. Wood needs a certain power/speed combo to darken it. The more power, the more speed you can achieve that same look with for the most part.

For instance, a 45W machine vs. a 60W machine on wood, the 60 will finish the job faster with the same result. However, a 45W Epilog vs a 45W Trotec, where both are running less than 100% speed to achieve the dark burn in wood, isn't going to be any difference in speed.

All of them will work, it just depends on your needs. If you have something that you need to really keep the cost down on the final product, you want it done quickly. If you aren't as concerned about saving in that area because it's a higher priced product, then it might not make a difference to you.

[Kev Williams]

Trotec isn't the fastest, but I digress...

Here's something I've noted over the years- I now have 2 machines that will run 80 inches per second, the Speedy's will run around 140 inches per second...

However, they'll only go that fast if there's enough room. In other words, if you're engraving 6" long items, none of these machines are likely to reach full speeds. But fill the table with a matrix of jobs and the speed really comes into play.

Wood-- If you're lasering wood 'superficially' then 50 or 60 watts should be plenty. But if you're EVER going to go deep, then get all the power you can afford... My 80 watt Chinese Triumph is a turtle compared to my 40 watt Gravo LS900, but it will deep engrave wood so much faster than the LS it's not even close. And it's simply the power difference....

[Gary Hair]

Trotec isn't the fastest, but I digress...

You're just jealous Kev...

However, they'll only go that fast if there's enough room. In other words, if you're engraving 6" long items, none of these machines are likely to reach full speeds.

Not sure about the rest, but the Trotec's claim to fame along with the speed, is acceleration - it is supposed to be far superior to anything else. Granted, for a 6" item the difference in acceleration time may not be much for a single piece, but if you are doing 1,000's of those 6" parts then it may make all the difference in the world!

[Kev Williams]

I'd actually like to play with one some day... I just know that with mine, depending on the width of the engraving, say the 1 to 3" range, sometimes 50 speed is faster than any faster speed. But then, I'm sure there's been a few machine driver improvements made in the past few years!

[Rich Harman]

In other words, if you're engraving 6" long items, none of these machines are likely to reach full speeds.

My understanding is that the speed remains constant while the laser is firing, higher speed means it takes longer to accelerate to that speed - which means more room either side of the engraving. So I don't understand why a 6" item would not reach full speed.

Unless you mean time to finish each engraving. Higher speeds on small graphics can mean that more time is spent accelerating/decelerating than actually engraving.

Or, does Trotec have the ability to engrave while accelerating/decelerating? That sounds like it would be very difficult to implement well.

[Raphael Weil]

Yeah the short distance thing was explained to me. I'd frequently be going at 17" in length so the speed will come into play. 80% of my rastering will be highly detailed stuff that's engraved on the lighter side. On some of those same pieces I'll have some stuff that will be darker/deeper, but it's more rare for me.

So by the sounds of things I'll be just fine in the 50-60W range.

[Ross Moshinsky]

For the original question: when I looked at machines last year, Trotec was basically pushing the 80W tubes. 60W tubes and 80W tubes were the same price within a few hundred dollars. I didn't ask about anything less than 60W. This wasn't the pricing I got from the rep when contacting them but these were the prices they were doing at all the shows. Something may have changed this year but it's consistent with the pricing I've been given by Trotec the previous 2-3 years.

If you're choosing between Trotec and Epilog, without owning either, I'd say go with Trotec. This is based on a few things. When I priced the machines out, 60W vs 60W, the Epilog was "the better deal" but the fact Trotec was selling the 80W for the same price as the 60W at the time. So for about $2500, the Trotec was an 80W unit, with a larger table, it was faster, and better built. To go up to 80W with the Epilog would have been more expensive than the Trotec unit.

If money is a concern, which it always is, you can go used. That's what we did. It wasn't smooth sailing by any means but if you're smart, buy through Paypal with your credit card, and budget/expect repairs, you can make out okay in the end.

Trotec isn't the fastest, but I digress...

Here's something I've noted over the years- I now have 2 machines that will run 80 inches per second, the Speedy's will run around 140 inches per second...

However, they'll only go that fast if there's enough room. In other words, if you're engraving 6" long items, none of these machines are likely to reach full speeds. But fill the table with a matrix of jobs and the speed really comes into play.

Wood-- If you're lasering wood 'superficially' then 50 or 60 watts should be plenty. But if you're EVER going to go deep, then get all the power you can afford... My 80 watt Chinese Triumph is a turtle compared to my 40 watt Gravo LS900, but it will deep engrave wood so much faster than the LS it's not even close. And it's simply the power difference....

That just isn't true. My 30W LS100 engraves over 80ips. I have no idea the exact figure but I'd guess about 110ips. My 60W ULS engraves at 80ips. On acrylic, coated metal and engravers plastic, the LS100 is faster. You notice it more on larger items but if I engrave something 4x6, there is a definite time difference. On glass, they are the same (the ULS theoretically could engrave faster but I'm not happy with the results when engraving fast so I basically dialed the ULS to match my LS100 settings). Wood the ULS is faster. Obviously when cutting the ULS is faster basically always.

[Keith Winter]

Please list the materials you will be engraving, including the type of wood. Also how deep you want to go and if you will be doing any cutting as well. This will help with recommendations on power.

Hi all,

I've narrowed it down to 2 vendors, Epilog vs Trotec. I had some conflicting advice from reps with regards to the impact of the wattage I'll choose on my raster speeds. Based on all the old threads I've read on here, I'm now quite certain that the difference in rastering speed between a 50W Speedy 300, a 60W and an 80W is going to be quite significant (one vendor told me a 50 would be fine for mostly rastering). Naturally the price is also much more significant.

Can someone give me an order of magnitude with regards to the speed difference I could expect between 50, 60 and 80? I suppose the way I see it, the 50 and 60W Trotec is so much faster than everyone else in the business that it will suit my production needs. I don't intend to rent out time on my machines, so I'm not even sure I can justify an 80W at this stage. I guess my other question is how hard is it to upgrade it to 80W in 2 years once my business does justify it?

[Kev Williams]

An LS100 is rated at 72 ips, just like my LS900... The new XT versions are rated at 158 ips. Actual speed? Who knows for sure? <<< I take that back, the new LS100 and LS900 are rated at 100ips... )


A machine capable of engraving 80 ips needs time to GET to 80 ips, it just won't do it in 6".

My LS900 is running cylinder work at the moment, but Gary's old GCC was available for a test, and it's an 80 ips machine w/servo motors...

I just ran a 1/4" tall x 6" long rectangle at 100 speed, 500 lines per inch:
--took exactly 25 seconds

I extended the rectangle to 24 inches, 4x as long. 4 x the time would be 100 seconds...
--it ran it in 55 seconds, did 4x the work in nearly half the time...

Now, this machine has WAY more built-in runout than my LS900, but I'm still betting I get similar results with it..

[Rich Harman]

A machine capable of engraving 80 ips needs time to GET to 80 ips, it just won't do it in 6".

Yeah, this is where you are confusing me. It does need time to accelerate to that speed, but why do you say it can't do that speed? The acceleration up to engraving speed happens before it reaches the graphic - it has reached full speed when the laser fires.

I just ran a 1/4" tall x 6" long rectangle at 100 speed, 500 lines per inch:
--took exactly 25 seconds

I extended the rectangle to 24 inches, 4x as long. 4 x the time would be 100 seconds...
--it ran it in 55 seconds, did 4x the work in nearly half the time...

In both cases the engraving speed and overrun distance will be the same, but the ratio of overrun to engraving is much better when you engrave four times as much for the same amount of overrun.