What's the difference between DMT Duosharp and Whetstone??

[Ian Scofield]

Looking to get into handplanes and need to invest in the sharpening setup that goes with it. From my research thus far, most seem to recommend the DMT stones over the EZE-lap ones as they last longer and people were having issues with the EZE-lap ones not coming/staying flat.

The double sided part aside, both are diamond sharpening stones with a non-continuous surface. They don't list anything on their site, nor can I find any comparisons online. The reviews on Amazon don't list anything specific.

What is the difference between the two? Is one better than the other? I'm a firm believer in buy once cry once, so if it's more expensive but has significant advantages or will last longer, then I'm all for it.

Or is it worth looking into ceramic stones? Read a couple marathon threads on here that never really conclusively lean one way or the other.

[lowell holmes]

I can't say for sure what you get in each case, but some diamond stones (generic name for this discussion) come with diamonds attached to ss plate. Other stones have diamonds attached to a thin ss plate and then to plastic. I have both and I don't have any complaints about either.

[Allan Speers]

DMT's are more expensive because they use a different TYPE of diamond crystal. They last longer.

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Ian,If you really want a diamond plate that's last.Shaptons DLRP is very long lasting and guaranteed to me flat.It has two side one for stone and one for steel.Its core is bronze it's expensive.The one I have has out lasted all plastic one I've bought.

[Ian Scofield]

Hi Ian,If you really want a diamond plate that's last.Shaptons DLRP is very long lasting and guaranteed to me flat.It has two side one for stone and one for steel.Its core is bronze it's expensive.The one I have has out lasted all plastic one I've bought.

Andrew, are you referencing the DLRP for actually honing blades or just flattening stones?
http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Sh...late-P516.aspx
According to this it looks like it's just for flattening stones >500grit.

I'm entertaining the idea of sharpening with diamond stones exclusively, not water stones since they last longer, cut faster, and should stay flat and won't dish.

[Andrew Hughes]

Hi Ian,its for both stone and steel,sorry for the confusion.

[Reinis Kanders]

500 bucks for a sharpening stone? Where is fun in that! Get whatever is cheap and flat. Once you get some sharpening skills then you will be better equipped to decide what you need.
If you have nothing then coarse duosharp and spyderco ceramic can be a decent combo.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Who told you diamond stones last longer ? This is the opposite of true. Diamond stones, whether cheap or expensive will become finer cutting as the years go by. This is nice for your medium and very nice on your fine stone, not so nice for your coarse stone. People who relay on a fast cutting coarse stone will need to replace their diamond stone every one in a "depends how much you sharpen". But that's about it. You are unlikely to ever wear out one of the harder water stones and it will never get finer than it is. Diamonds are nice, you will need to strop after your fine stone or add a fine ceramic/water stone to finish. I like the EzeLap very much, they cut well and have a good feel for sharpening on. I didn't like the plastic mounted dmt as much. A fine and extra fine EzeLap will wear in nicely after some time. The fine is coarse enough at first to be your first stone, once it gets too fine for that you can pick your new coarse stone and use a 3 stone set-up. If you use a grinder you might never need a coarser stone.

[Ian Scofield]

Who told you diamond stones last longer ? This is the opposite of true. Diamond stones, whether cheap or expensive will become finer cutting as the years go by. This is nice for your medium and very nice on your fine stone, not so nice for your coarse stone. People who relay on a fast cutting coarse stone will need to replace their diamond stone every one in a "depends how much you sharpen". But that's about it. You are unlikely to ever wear out one of the harder water stones and it will never get finer than it is. Diamonds are nice, you will need to strop after your fine stone or add a fine ceramic/water stone to finish. I like the EzeLap very much, they cut well and have a good feel for sharpening on. I didn't like the plastic mounted dmt as much. A fine and extra fine EzeLap will wear in nicely after some time. The fine is coarse enough at first to be your first stone, once it gets too fine for that you can pick your new coarse stone and use a 3 stone set-up. If you use a grinder you might never need a coarser stone.

Most of the threads I've read on here have mentioned wetstones you need to flatten quite frequently, problems with dishing, etc. The ceramic stones have gotten good reviews as well, but the fact that they eventually wear out and need to be replaced (same as the diamond stones). I know all of them won't last forever, just want to get something that will last a significant amount of time after sharpening one or two handplanes somewhat frequently. Is this not the case?

I've seen this set listed quite a few times on here with great reviews:
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...oducts_id=1667

I was looking into just getting this set or assembling a 3 stone set of DMT stones, C, F, XXF.

[Jim Koepke]

Most of the threads I've read on here have mentioned wetstones you need to flatten quite frequently, problems with dishing, etc. The ceramic stones have gotten good reviews as well, but the fact that they eventually wear out and need to be replaced (same as the diamond stones). I know all of them won't last forever, just want to get something that will last a significant amount of time after sharpening one or two handplanes somewhat frequently. Is this not the case?

I've seen this set listed quite a few times on here with great reviews:
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...oducts_id=1667

I was looking into just getting this set or assembling a 3 stone set of DMT stones, C, F, XXF.

If perfection in edge honing is desired, then one must do a lot of stone maintenance. If one can work with slightly less than perfect, one can go awhile between flattening sessions. It is easy to see how cambered blades may have come about due to wear on softer stones.

Looking at the set you linked, followed by looking up the conversion rate makes me wish my wife didn't notice my bare arms. It would be hard to convince her my stones have all given up to my steel.

Maybe I should let my arm hair grow back to convince her I need some new stones.

jtk

[Allan Speers]

I started a similar thread earlier this year, specifically asking about using nothing but diamond stones.

Diamond stones, even DMT types, wear out quite quickly if you use them for blades all the time. This is why most folks here recommended to me NOT to use the Seller's method. (Paul probably replaces his diamond plates a lot, or else he made that video soon after switching to all-diamond, and before he realized his mistake. This exact thing happened with Rob Cosman.)

I've also discussed this topic with 2 different techs at DMT, and even though they sell stones specifically "rated" for honing blades, they also don't recommend it.

IMO, the ultimate setup is a set of Spyderco ceramic stones (no water needed, and incredibly little dishing over time) with one good diamond lapping plate to keep the course stone dead flat. (And for initial tweaking of the finer stones as well.) - Plus some green paste & strop, at least for chisels.

I just wish the lower grit Spyderco's came in a 3" wide version. It's quite infuriating.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Most of the threads I've read on here have mentioned wetstones you need to flatten quite frequently, problems with dishing, etc. The ceramic stones have gotten good reviews as well, but the fact that they eventually wear out and need to be replaced (same as the diamond stones). I know all of them won't last forever, just want to get something that will last a significant amount of time after sharpening one or two handplanes somewhat frequently. Is this not the case?

I've seen this set listed quite a few times on here with great reviews:
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...oducts_id=1667

I was looking into just getting this set or assembling a 3 stone set of DMT stones, C, F, XXF.

Ian, I see what your saying. the thing is you are simply not understanding the proportion. you can sharpen all your hand planes and chisels and what not on ceramic water stones, flatten them as often as you need (I don't consider this an issue, is simply part of life with water stones) and you can continue to do so for many many years before you might notice one getting a little thin. if you sharpen so much that you can wear out a shapton pro or a sigma or a chosera, then I suspect the cost of a stone won't bother you much at all !

Diamond stones on the other hand... will not continue to cut as well for that long... not by a long shot. but a worn in fine and extra fine diamond stones are nice, and I've yet to see one that didn't cut at all (except cheap ones where the diamonds get ripped off). as I said before it's the coarse stone that will need replacing, and you will replace many coarse diamond plates in the life span of a single shapton pro 1000 (just for example).

I did manage to wear out a 1000\4000 king combo stone, there was 2mm left of the 1k and the stone cracked. it was thin to start, very very soft stone, and I flattened it several times between blades (I didn't quite know how to keep wear even on a stone back then) and it still took me over a year to wear it out. a full size ceramic stone would last me over 10 years if not much more.

Spyderco Ceramics probably cannot be worn out. I just got my first ceramic stones at work but have yet to put them through their paces so cannot comment on if I like them or not.

I had the sigma ceramic set that you linked too, I didn't like them much. I would go with other stones, but the Atoma 400 is a great diamond plate for stone flattening and if you use is ONLY for that it will likely last forever.

[Ian Scofield]

Ian, I see what your saying. the thing is you are simply not understanding the proportion. you can sharpen all your hand planes and chisels and what not on ceramic water stones, flatten them as often as you need (I don't consider this an issue, is simply part of life with water stones) and you can continue to do so for many many years before you might notice one getting a little thin. if you sharpen so much that you can wear out a shapton pro or a sigma or a chosera, then I suspect the cost of a stone won't bother you much at all !

Diamond stones on the other hand... will not continue to cut as well for that long... not by a long shot. but a worn in fine and extra fine diamond stones are nice, and I've yet to see one that didn't cut at all (except cheap ones where the diamonds get ripped off). as I said before it's the coarse stone that will need replacing, and you will replace many coarse diamond plates in the life span of a single shapton pro 1000 (just for example).

I did manage to wear out a 1000\4000 king combo stone, there was 2mm left of the 1k and the stone cracked. it was thin to start, very very soft stone, and I flattened it several times between blades (I didn't quite know how to keep wear even on a stone back then) and it still took me over a year to wear it out. a full size ceramic stone would last me over 10 years if not much more.

Spyderco Ceramics probably cannot be worn out. I just got my first ceramic stones at work but have yet to put them through their paces so cannot comment on if I like them or not.

I had the sigma ceramic set that you linked too, I didn't like them much. I would go with other stones, but the Atoma 400 is a great diamond plate for stone flattening and if you use is ONLY for that it will likely last forever.

That makes perfect sense, thanks for the thorough detailed writeup (as well as the responses from others).

What didn't you like about the sigma ceramic set? I know you haven't used the Spyderco Ceramics yet, but would you recommend those or any other brands within the ceramic realm? My only reservation is that they are only 2" wide, and not the normal 3".

[Allan Speers]

The only downside to ceramics (in my limited experience) is that they don't cut as fast as, say, my old Norton water stones.

For me, the extra mess of the water stones isn't worth the extra speed, especially since most sharpening is a simple honing touch-up.

[Kees Heiden]

I have worn down a Naniwa superstone 800 and am quite far with a Bester 400. The first one is very soft and disappeared incredibly fast. The Bester is a lot harder but goes rather quickly too. My Sigma 1000 on the other hand wears a lot slower.

I agree about the diamond hones. Especially the coarse ones. You can wear one out with one recalcitrant chisel!

Nowadays I like oil stones. When you only use high carbon steel, they have many virtues. They don't wear, they don't dish, you can't gouge the surface, they don't create a mess and they are plenty fast enough for me.