First timer – applied carving question

[Mike Allen1010]

For our 30th wedding anniversary I am planning to build a small chest out of mahogany, similar to this one below which I built out of pine:
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For the front panel of the chest (which will be a flat uniform surface – no ornamental "slats/rabbits" like in the pine chest), I'm thinking about trying a carving roughly based on the pattern below:
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I'm currently thinking I might just do the floral garland with central Heart on the front panel the chest and do the intertwined wedding bands/scrolls separately to perhaps go inside the chest lid – that's what the LOML seems to want.

I would very much appreciate some advice from the experts here on a couple fundamental questions – I apologize that these are naïve"

1) Would it make more sense to do this as an "applied" carving, or carve it directly out of the chest panel? I'm thinking the applied carving might be easier because I wouldn't have to waste away so much material to establish the background – but I really have no idea?

2) If I were to carve this design on a separate piece to be applied to the panel when the carving is complete, how thckk should I make the block of wood that will be carved? I'm thinking something like 3/8" -1/2" might be enough to provide the desired depth for the carved elements? I am a rank, novice carver and I'm thinking thinner material might be easier simply because there's less wood for me to remove, which probably adds up to less opportunity for screwup – any thoughts?

3) If I do an applied carving, once I trace the design on the carving stock, do I want to saw out the blank as close as possible to the final outline of the carving, or should I saw out the blank Slightly larger than the design, which might provide more stability for the fragile carved elements? If I do this, how would I ultimately separate the final carved piece from any background so that it could be applied to the chest?

Any advice and suggestions are much appreciated! Thanks in advance.

Best regards, Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I would do it as an applied carving because if you mess up, you don't waste so much wood. If you screw up the carving on the front of the chest, you'll have to re-do the front of the chest.

Thickness is up to you, depending on how much relief you want.

To carve an applied piece of wood, take cardboard and glue the cardboard to a larger piece of wood - maybe plywood. Then glue the wood to be carved to the cardboard. Make sure the cardboard is bigger than the carving blank. When you finish, take a large chisel and use it to split the carved item from the backer board. You can sand the cardboard off the back of the carving. Put some sandpaper on a flat surface (maybe your table saw) and just rub the carving against it. That will take off the cardboard and leave the back of the carving flat.

The reason for that backer board is so that you can clamp it down while carving.

For best results, take your carving blank from the offcuts of the front of the chest. That way the carving will be the same color and will age the same way as the rest of the chest.

Also, make sure the grain runs the same way in the carving (when mounted) as the front of the chest.

Mike

[Karl Andersson]

Hi Mike,
I was going to comment yesterday to your general design questions regarding this chest, but I got tangled up in other things. What Mike Henderson said is good advice If you're going for what you've shown as an applied carving. I have had success gluing small applied carvings to backers using hide glue and thick watercolor paper, although a non-corrugated cardboard makes sense to me too. Something that will be thick enough to get a chisel through when you're done -some carving texts recommend newspaper or brown paper bags, but I've had the glue soak through those and it makes it really hard to split the paper off. Hide glue comes off the back of the carving easily with some heat (hair dryer) and a dull scraper - I wouldn't use hot water if the carving is thin or delicate because it might curl when it dries.

Another consideration is to do the carving within a recessed border; you make a recessed flat space about 1/4 inch deep (think router plane) leaving the outline of your design at surface level, then carve the details in relief and use a scratch stock to put a moulded border on the recessed area. The carving would then be safer from damage - you could also mount an applied carving this way.

Some general comments on your design, from a practical point of view:

The design, as drawn, will end up being very fragile, even in mahogany. You mention getting it thick enough to carve deep relief, but having a lot of tiny leaf points made from short grain is just asking for them to get knocked off well before your 50th anniversary. In order to give it visibility but also strength, I recommend you make the carving "blank" with a half-ellipse profile (in cross section) first, following the general arc of your swags. The edges could perpendicular to the face of the chest, standing out about 1/8 inch, if you want to have more highlights and shadows to make the swags and central piece more noticeable, or you can blend the edges down to feather into the face of the chest. I would make the max thickness of the applied part about 3/8" and the deepest carving about 1/8 inch to minimize chipping off of the leaves. Sorry if this is hard to envision; just keep in mind the exposure to damage and try to design the carving to minimize that. if you widen the design a bit, it would also make it stronger.

Another suggestion I have is to thicken the two scrolls that make up the heart in the center medallion for visual interest and to make them a little stronger -even if they're part of a raised section with "fill" between them as part of the applied carving, I think it might look nicer if they were more shapely.

And finally (sorry, I'm just trying to be helpful), the design with the rings needs some work in order for it to make an interesting carving. The way it is drawn, it would be a much nicer inlay than a carving, with plenty of opportunities to scorch the inlay to make shading (and you could use a burning tool or wire inlay for the writing) and possibly even use brass inlays for the rings, as is often seen in British Regency furniture. If you made a plaque of lighter wood with a scrolled border and did all this inlay on it, that might be nice enough to attach to the outside under the carving or inside as your wife prefers. If I were going to carve it, I'd have to make the rings thicker and maybe smaller in relation to the ribbon; I think if they were carved as drawn, they would not be recognizable as rings.

OK, just my approach - let me know if you want any more "sage advice"
Karl

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks Mike and Karl - all very good advice, much appreciated and all ideas I would never have though of in a Million years. Thanks again for taking the time to help a rookie, even with issues I didn't know I have - which are generally the ones that bite me in the butt!

Best, Mike

[Mark Yundt]

Carving a piece of wood intended to be an applied carving using the heavy paper/cardboard glue etc. is effective but can lead to problems like splitting during removal of a little too much glue has been applied etc. especially on delicate pieces. I haven't done that process in 25 yrs. All that's needed is a roll of the cloth type carpet tape and you're good to go. Don't use the thin stuff. But you just cut off a few pieces and apply them here and there and stick the carving to a piece of ply for example and you're carving in minutes. To remove just slip a thin blade under an edge and gently lift. It'll pop off clean. Just peel off the tape. No sanding or any other thing .
So easy. All my carvings (applied type) regardless of size are done this way.

There are a few options as to how you decide to carve the piece . Applied or on the face panel. And there are other ways to accomplish the look of a recessed panel without having to carve a recessed panel and easy ways to carve a trim molding for it as well.

here are some swags I've carved that were exposed to possible damage because of where they were located. ( kitchen cabinet door faces,a vanity base etc.) but it depends how the carving is done that will determine how fragile it will be vs getting the look of being delicate.
And the piece with the W and two rings was a similar theme to yours but this was a speaker cover a built in stereo system. It ultimately got painted white and the white you see behind it is speaker cloth.
And these were carved using just carpet tape holding them in place. Surprisingly little is needed.

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks Mark for the advice!

If I understand correctly, what I think I'm going to do is to saw out the general outline of the floral/vines as close as possible to the outline of the design in stock that is 3/8" thick. Next I will roughly shaped the upper profile
Into a half elipse cross-section, likely with Rasps/sandpaper etc. and finally attach the carbon blank to a backing board with carpeting tape.

Karl, per your suggestion I revised designed to make the central hearts larger. I'm thinking I can would give this a try and if it doesn't turn out, or proves to be too fragile to move, I guess I could try carving it directly into the chest panel and wasting away the background stock to get the 3/8" depth I'm looking for.

As I mentioned earlier, I decided to split design and put the intertwined rings/ribbons on a separate piece of stock to go inside the chest lid. Here's my attempt:

DSC_0005.jpgDSC_0006.jpg


It took me about 1 1/2 days to do this and it was pretty high hard on my eyes and back. I'm not sure I'm willing/able to do any better it with a second attempt. The mahogany was a joy to carve – much easier than my previous attempts at carving in cherry.

I guess I'll get back to building the chest and revisit the carving later on. I guess ultimately I could do an applied carving last and add it when the chest is complete – right?

Thanks, Mike

[Karl Andersson]

Very nice work Mike, it has a nice delicate look - and your lettering came out looking sweet, which is probably the hardest part of the carving to do! Carving in Mahogany is a dream compared to some woods - I also like black walnut and butternut for the same reasons, although they tend to be more prone to damage as furniture than, say, hard maple. Keep us posted on the carving and the building - thanks for sharing your endeavors!
Karl