Imperial or metric?

[Jim Koepke]

So I guess the two types of measurement systems would be the one that worked well enough to send a man to the moon, and then metric. I'm having trouble seeing the problem.

There are likely a lot of people in the same boat as me. All of my life it has been inches, feet, yards and miles. It has worked fine and worked for those before us.

The battle to go metric has been a long one here in the United States:

In 1866, Congress authorized the use of
the metric system in this country and supplied
each state with a set of standard metric weights
and measures.

There was actually some use before that time by government agencies:

In the early 1800's, the
U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey (the
government’s surveying and map-making agency)
used meter and kilogram standards brought from
France.

For some reason it has never been fully adopted in the United States. Though now in stores many of our soft drinks and bottled spirits are sold in metric units.

Just the same, other than my automotive tools, almost everything in my shop is measured in inches. Of all my drill bits only one is metric. It would be kind of neat to have sets of metric auger bits and dowel forming plates.

I do have a set of metric blades for the Record equivalent to the Stanley #45.

All my lumber tends to be in inch sizes. Though it seems plywood has gone metric its labeling is still in inches. I have seen 15/32" plywood which happens to be the same as 12mm.

I have a nice (Snap-On, if my memory is working) socket that came to me from an old time mechanic that is 15/32". He likely bought it before there were many metric tools in North America.

Now when I work on my truck it takes a combination of Imperial and metric tools to get the job done. Lucky for me all my cars were VWs in my youth so I have a set of metric tools to go along with my SAE tools. (Society of American Engineering for those who are scratching their heads.)

jtk

[Shawn Pixley]

I'm sure I could cut on the wrong side of 40mm as easily as on the wrong side of 36". Metric is a the creation of a problem to serve as a solution to a problem that did not exist.

Not true in anything scientific. Metric is vastly more convenient in that usage. It may not matter much in woodworking, but overall, metric is a system that makes much more sense.

[Mel Fulks]

Boy,this is a perennial favorite! Like Nicholas I don't see any problem. Those of us who prefer imperial also learned metric and must at times use it. But I don't like it. For whatever reason,computers I guess, metric seems to have lost some increments. Seems everything is milimeters or kilometers ...so every counter top is thousands of millimeters long ...and you have to drive twice as far to deliver it.

[David C. Roseman]

So I guess the two types of measurement systems would be the one that worked well enough to send a man to the moon, and then metric. I'm having trouble seeing the problem.

No problem as long as everyone is using the same one.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

[Stew Denton]

Hi All,

Having worked extensively with both systems for my entire adult life, read that "earning a living", I know both reasonably well, but do not know every detail of either. For practical wood working there may not be a lot of practical differences that I can guess. Admittedly, as pointed out above, which ever system you know, if you only know one, is easier. I can say that if you do a lot of complex sizing with several pieces that are fractions of an inch, (or millimeters and smaller), the metric system is easier to do the calculations in.

For scientific calculations, the metric system is drastically easier. Back when studying physics, it was so much easier to do the calculations in the metric system that when given a problem in the English system, some of the guys would convert all of the parameters to the metric system, do the problem, and then convert the answer back into the English system to give the answer in the English values.

One of the big disadvantages of the English system is when you get into details that most folks don't deal with. For example, if you are working with small units of measure in the English system, and have to convert to bigger values, or vice versa, it is much more complex than the metric system. For example 0.35 kilograms is 350 grams. But to convert 4 ounces to grains, it can't be done in your head, well actually it can, as the answer is 1750 grains, but if you had to convert 3.3 ounces into grains, it become a lot more complex.

Excel and similar programs have made it a lot easier to work with the English system, for example when I work with fractions of an inch in Excel, I normally convert fractions to decimals, do the math using Excel with the decimal equivalents, and when I get done, convert the figures back into fractions of an inch. Back when I worked with slide rules and log tables, working with fractions of an inch was more time consuming.

Another example, if you work with land, and have to know and work with feet, yards, rods and chains, as units of length, which you do in the English system, the calculations are more complex than the metric system.

At any rate, for most things folks do, it probably doesn't make any difference.

Just my two bits.

Stew

[Stew Denton]

Hi Nicholas,

I do have to add one thought. The fittings that made the rockets that went to the moon were almost certainly English, but most of the basic physics and chemistry discoveries that made the trip possible were made using the metric system.

Stew

[ken hatch]

No problem as long as everyone is using the same one.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

Thanks,

Ain't that the truth.

I had just deleted a reply pointing that out because I thought the post might have offend some delicate fee fees. We in the States do some thing very well, some not so well. Sticking with fractional measurement when the rest of the world is metric is one of the not so good. Bottom line metric is a better system because it is the world standard.

As another example of how we would all be better off if we worked with the same system as the rest of the world. The one place I know where feet and nautical miles rule around the world is aviation. The only exceptions are Russia, China and some of their satellites. Russian and Chinese airspace is controlled in metric units, flying into either if you had not been in awhile was like monkey's and a basketball.

ken

[Stewie Simpson]

Dead or slow moving stock is a capital cost burden that cannot be maintained if you wish to remain a competative business. The demand from countries outside the USA willing to accept importing goods based on imperial measurement will continually decline. IMO.

[Jim Davis]

Kees,

What's ironic is even Imperial UK for the most part has gone metric, although the in-laws still give their weight in stones.

I drive to work on I-19 which is the only metric signed road in the USA and every time I do it is a reminder of a missed opportunity.

ken

Road signs in America that are not metric indicate whole miles or tenths of miles. How is metric easier? It's an example of confirmation bias.

Might be worth remembering that Germany and Japan were using metric and the US was using SAE during WWII...Must have not been a great advantage to use metric.

[Mike Cherry]

I don't know anything about sending people to the moon, other than that movie The Martian was pretty good. That was Mars...anyways. As far as my woodworking is concerned I use relative dimensioning for almost everything. I think I could make the switch to metric. Wasn't it President Ford that declared the metric system our primary system? What was that 40 years ago? Lol

[Shawn Pixley]

Road signs in America that are not metric indicate whole miles or tenths of miles. How is metric easier? It's an example of confirmation bias.

Might be worth remembering that Germany and Japan were using metric and the US was using SAE during WWII...Must have not been a great advantage to use metric.

That is a specious argument. No one claims that metric will change the world. Somehow I doubt that the war was in the hands of those devising measuring systems. Furthermore, the A-Bomb was most assuredly developed using metric calculations for the physics.

Using the same logic, "I have been carrying this magic rock that will protect the earth against asteroid extinction since 1999. We haven't been wiped out yet. QED."

Correlation is not causation

[ken hatch]

There are likely a lot of people in the same boat as me. All of my life it has been inches, feet, yards and miles. It has worked fine and worked for those before us.

The battle to go metric has been a long one here in the United States:



There was actually some use before that time by government agencies:



For some reason it has never been fully adopted in the United States. Though now in stores many of our soft drinks and bottled spirits are sold in metric units.

Just the same, other than my automotive tools, almost everything in my shop is measured in inches. Of all my drill bits only one is metric. It would be kind of neat to have sets of metric auger bits and dowel forming plates.

I do have a set of metric blades for the Record equivalent to the Stanley #45.

All my lumber tends to be in inch sizes. Though it seems plywood has gone metric its labeling is still in inches. I have seen 15/32" plywood which happens to be the same as 12mm.

I have a nice (Snap-On, if my memory is working) socket that came to me from an old time mechanic that is 15/32". He likely bought it before there were many metric tools in North America.

Now when I work on my truck it takes a combination of Imperial and metric tools to get the job done. Lucky for me all my cars were VWs in my youth so I have a set of metric tools to go along with my SAE tools. (Society of American Engineering for those who are scratching their heads.)

jtk

Jim,

Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 "to coordinate and plan the increasing use of the metric system in the United States". Voluntary conversion was initiated, and the United States Metric Board (USMB) was established for planning, coordination, and public education. The USMB was disbanded in the autumn of 1982.* I seem to remember something happening in 1980 that led to the board disbanding.

ken

*From Wikipedia

[ken hatch]

That is a specious argument. No one claims that metric will change the world. Somehow I doubt that the war was in the hands of those devising measuring systems. Furthermore, the A-Bomb was most assuredly developed using metric calculations for the physics.

Using the same logic, "I have been carrying this magic rock that will protect the earth against asteroid extinction since 1999. We haven't been wiped out yet. QED."

Correlation is not causation

Thank you Shawn,

I started to respond, then thought "naw, not worth the effort."

ken

[Mike Holbrook]

As more and more general information references via metric, I give more and more consideration to switching. Certainly it is irritating to mentally try and convert metric to imperial in ones head as more and more things are referenced in metric. I am looking for a good metric tape measure, hoping it will help me start picturing things metrically.

I don't see this issue going away. It will continue to plague us until we finally switch. In my humble opinion, we will continue to struggle with conversions until we accept what has become the international standard. I do not care much for the argument that we should remain different, as this argument seems to argue for accentuating our differences with other people rather than celebrating and promoting similarities and learning to work more closely together.

[Mike Cherry]

I agree Mike. As I get more and more interested in Japanese hand tools, I feel myself gravitating towards metric when needed. It would be nice to not have to be different than everyone else.