Imperial or metric?

[Mel Fulks]

Mike, I think you are right and congress passed a law to go all metric in 1966....or about. Complete date NOT start date
Done deal. And I have seen the nutty drawings with measurements like "6432 MILLIMETERS" to prove it. So all you have to do is translate it to something that makes sense and move forward...after shouting oaths and obscenities....which sound better than Muzak ..

[Jim Davis]

That is a specious argument. No one claims that metric will change the world. Somehow I doubt that the war was in the hands of those devising measuring systems. Furthermore, the A-Bomb was most assuredly developed using metric calculations for the physics.

Using the same logic, "I have been carrying this magic rock that will protect the earth against asteroid extinction since 1999. We haven't been wiped out yet. QED."

Correlation is not causation

The war against Germany was won because the U.S. out-produced weapons and equipment.

I didn't say metric lost the war for the Axis powers. I just said it was not an advantage that saved them. Wood chips can end up on shoulders. Metric is not a great advantage. Even if it were, easier is not always better. That's why this forum exists. If we always chose easier, we would not use hand tools.

[john zulu]

Wood working is the only interest I went imperial. Partly due to the tools I get from the west are in imperial...... The rest of my interest like metal working I use metric. From Malaysia

[Jim Davis]

I probably have an unreasonable aversion to metric because of the arrogance of its origins. The meter was intended to be one ten-millionth of the the distance from the equator to the north pole along a meridian that runs through Paris. But it was not known that the earth is not truly round, so the calculated length of the meter did not conform to the ration. After this was discovered, it was suggested that the meter be changed to equal 40 inches instead of 39.37 inches, resulting in an exact ratio with the inch/foot/yard. But NO! The meter was already sacred.

Ever since, the metric backers have been touting the supremacy of a system that is not related to the size of a king's foot, thumb joint, or the length from elbow to finger tip. But when we say a fish was a foot long, it instantly brings a rather accurate image to mind. If we say 30 centimeters long, our mind (if we are fluent with metric units) says, huh, that's a little longer than my foot.

[Mel Fulks]

Jim ,informative and well stated. Love the fish example, I agree. If someone says they caught a fish a foot long....
it instantly brings up the image of a fish between 8 and 10 inches.

[Shawn Pixley]

The war against Germany was won because the U.S. out-produced weapons and equipment.

I didn't say metric lost the war for the Axis powers. I just said it was not an advantage that saved them. Wood chips can end up on shoulders. Metric is not a great advantage. Even if it were, easier is not always better. That's why this forum exists. If we always chose easier, we would not use hand tools.

You are welcome use any measurement system you want. Metric is a great advantage in all scientific endeavors, just not woodworking. My point was any argument that uses WWII to defend a measurement system is a very long stretch that strain credulity.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

I use Imperial, but do everything in decimal inches. Working as an Engineer for the last 35 years, I've managed to commit all the decimal equivalents to memory. The math is much easier to do in your head.

Prefer centimeters and millimeters. Otherwise, decimal inches is my preferred way also! I remember that 1/8 = 0.125 because of vine glasses, and that is around 3 mm. Monitor sizes I can comprehend only in inches. Looks strange when German advertisements have written them in cm. Bandsaw sizes are nice in inches. Human height is not nice in inches (184 cm = 72.44 inch or 6'-440/1000").

I find that useful measurements are easier in metric. For example, how to center 3/8 hole in 2-5/32 wide plank? Deduce one from another and divide by two - that will be the offset from both sides. Will never use imperial for that. Or when some sizes increase slightly - it was 2-1/16 now it is 2-3/32.

For me Imperial system work fine for something made in fixed increments, like monitors and saw blades, or when without fractions, like 1,8 miles.

But that is only brain training, which is a good thing. Having bolts and nuts in two different systems is simply expensive. Had to buy Imperial tools like sockets and hex bits when I bought some products from Incra and Veritas and Benchcrafted. That is not merely brain exercise!

But at least now I know why there are some odd sizes in Metric world. Like kitchen countertop is usually 38 mm thick (1-1/2"), particle panels are 19 mm thick (3/4"), holes in the walls for power outlet are 68 mm round and so on.

Salut from metric guy!

[Jim Koepke]

I find that useful measurements are easier in metric. For example, how to center 3/8 hole in 2-5/32 wide plank? Deduce one from another and divide by two - that will be the offset from both sides. Will never use imperial for that. Or when some sizes increase slightly - it was 2-1/16 now it is 2-3/32.

For me it is easier and more accurate to do this via mechanical means. Using either dividers, a marking gauge or even a ruler held at a diagonal will seldom introduce a math error.

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

I use imperial measurements exclusively for woodworking. That's what I grew up with and what I'm familiar with. For me, I can look at a bolt and know it's 3/8" or a board a know it's a 1 x 6. I can spot 8' or 40' by eye. I can't tell what metric size something is without measuring. In addition, tools and supplies are generally imperial.

Metric is a well thought out system but it never fully displaced imperial here in the states. In woodworking and the trades, imperial remains the norm.

However...

I can't buy a liter of milk at the grocery store but I can get a 2 liter of fizzy sugar water. As for wrenches, I need full sets of both. It's not uncommon to have a mix of each. One part metric, one part imperial. And what about marathons? 26.2 miles (based on Pheidippides run from Marathon to Athens) and often connected with 1/2 marathon and 5k and 10k races.

Goofy world we live in...

[Bill McNiel]

My drills are Imperial, chisel are primarily Imperial with some Bench and Paring Metric "infills", full sets of wrenches and sockets in both I & M.

Not at all sure what the choices have to do with being "clever", although I have always considered such a designation a compliment.

[Greg Krummel]

When I'm woodworking, machining, or designing, U.S. customary units are more convenient. If I need to cut or use a tool in half or double increments, it's easier in base 2 fractions than decimal places. If I need a more accurate measurement, calipers and other measurement tools with thousandths of an inch work well. As many have pointed out, the materials and tooling supplied in the U.S. are primarily in customary units, so it's convenient to also work in the native units.

When I'm doing scientific calculations for research, metric is just more consistent, well established, and widely accepted. Also, scientific standards agencies in the U.S. have switched to metric.

[Paul Sidener]

Oh yes, the problem does exist! I face it every time I'm trying to communicate a measurement on this forum. The USA is the last country in the world using imperial. So, as long as you recognise that the world is larger then good old America, then you have to acknowledge that there is a problem.

I was a printer for 30 years. Used equipment that was made in Germany, it was all metric. I have no problem using either. I don't see what the problem is. You are from a different country, and speak a different language. Yet we have no problem communicating. I don't see anyone saying the world must speak only one language. Most people in Europe speak more than one language.

Measurements are just numbers. What difference does it make, how someone measures? It is the final product that matters anyways. Most people wouldn't know if something was made in metric or imperial anyways. I try to measure as little as possible. I find, I make less mistakes that way. My old shop teacher used to say measure twice cut once. To me that gives me twice as many chances to make a mistake. I just don't see the problem. To each their own.

What do you call someone that is bilingual? An Englishman.
What do you call someone that speaks three languages? a Frenchman.
What do you call someone that speaks only one language? An American.

I am bilingual. I speak good english and bad english, and understand very little of either.

[Mike Cherry]

For me it is easier and more accurate to do this via mechanical means. Using either dividers, a marking gauge or even a ruler held at a diagonal will seldom introduce a math error.

jtk

Totally agree Jim. This is one of the best tips I get from watching other craftsman work. Watching Paul Sellers find the center of a boards width by trying his marking gauge from both sides until the pin is in the same spot. Presto, you just found center. I think these type of tricks or whatever you call them are the golden nuggets of watching others work.

[Joel Thomas Runyan]

Linear measurement with the imperial system is mostly disagreeable because of the inconsistency in unit division, but this is more less unimportant as concerns furniture construction, as anything furniture sized can be measured in a reasonable number of inches.

The question is one of base. The Base 10 of metric is actually quite poor for general calculation... it only seems convenient because we count in decimal. If we counted in hexadecimal, all the imagined strength of millimeters could be given to inches. Unfortunately, we're never going to start counting in hexadecimal, so it's currently the most convenient to calculate in metric. In a strange turn of events, metric lovers insist on giving grief to the imperialists for being stuck in illogical and antiquated ways, when in reality, counting in 10s is about as arbitrary as it gets.

[Kees Heiden]

I was a printer for 30 years. Used equipment that was made in Germany, it was all metric. I have no problem using either. I don't see what the problem is. You are from a different country, and speak a different language. Yet we have no problem communicating. I don't see anyone saying the world must speak only one language. Most people in Europe speak more than one language.

Measurements are just numbers. What difference does it make, how someone measures? It is the final product that matters anyways. Most people wouldn't know if something was made in metric or imperial anyways. I try to measure as little as possible. I find, I make less mistakes that way. My old shop teacher used to say measure twice cut once. To me that gives me twice as many chances to make a mistake. I just don't see the problem. To each their own.

What do you call someone that is bilingual? An Englishman.
What do you call someone that speaks three languages? a Frenchman.
What do you call someone that speaks only one language? An American.

I am bilingual. I speak good english and bad english, and understand very little of either.

Yes I understand that it isn't a problem for you when I write English and use imperial measurements.