Sawstop Craig's List Sale, Fraud

[Larry Dunn]

My wife was concerned about my safety while using my table saw. She was aware of the Sawstop and wanted me to purchase one. I was rumbling around on Craig's List and found an almost new, or like new 3 HP rig with a lot of options. The 1st ad I ran across explain that due to a job change he could not take the saw with him as the ad went on to explain. The price was right up there so I decided to pass. A couple of weeks later the same ad was listed along with another ad with the same photos that had a price of $1200. We thought to ourselves that he must of had to get rid of it now. I responded and received a text from someone that explained it was now for sale from a Pawn shop with a number you insert and locate the item on their web site. Sure enough it was there. Very professional web site with chat features and the whole bit. Both my wife and I have been around the block long enough to check the outfit out and it came up clean. I paid them their money as one would normally with a Pawn shop. They guaranteed shipment in 5 days via Fed Ex. 10 days later I tried to check on my purchase and of course no answer. A little looking and I found the same ad several places through out the country on Craig's List and other sites. A little more looking and found 2 Craig's List postings explaining this was a fraud. A little more looking and found a link to another ad via the North Carolina Woodworkers site to another Craig's List ad. And it was connected to someone's name and or profile with a note letting people know it was not his but was fro sale at the link he provided.

I converted every part of my transaction to a PDF form. I also did the same with every thing else I found, including ads and other links. Now we are nobodies dummy and this stuff not only looks good, but checks out good and would be happy to provide all of the documentation to support what we are saying. We have turned this in to the FBI and will with all other agencies that pertain to this.

If they can attach this stuff to another woodworking sites for sale, why not Sawmill Creek?

I did purchase a Saw stop just the same but it cost me a bundle. Of course I don't expect to get my money back, but it thought putting this post out there would stop someone else from purchasing the same saw I bought, and I am sure others did as well. Please keep in mind that due to my wife's position we have the tools to check these things and don't get taken in easily. This scam is the best of the best. How anyone would expect to get away with this for any period of time is beyond me. Nor can I understand how anything so elaborate could be worth the effort and expense required to do something like this with small ticket items for such a short period of time.

I personally am caulking this one up and would not have posted this unless I found the other woodworking site link.

Larry

[Kent Adams]

Did you pay the pawnshop with a credit card? I hope so because you can get your money back. I never pay anyone online anything without thinking "how will I get my money back if things go wrong".

[Mike Goetzke]

I saw this ad a couple weeks ago in the Chicago area. I was tempted to contact the seller also but like you did I checked CL across the country and found about a dozen ads in other states so stayed clear.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Never ever ever buy anything from a craigslist seller unless it is in person, you can see and touch the item, and it is in cash!!

[Ben Rivel]

Thats terrible. I saw the same ad here in Sacramento, CA and knew something was up. Of course I noticed right after getting the shipping confirmation for me 3HP PCS 36" with all the fixings! At first I though aw man did I make a mistake, then I figured it was probably a scam and that I had got a great deal on the setup and bought from an authorized SawStop dealer so I was much better off than buying used anyway.

[Larry Dunn]

Check your Pawn sites. You have2 options; 1st you can pay with a pre-paid debit card or a direct cash deposit. This is normal and done all the time. Pawn shops for all practical purposes very honest. It goes without saying; I did not buy from a private individual. My point in posting this is; this outfit is somehow infiltrating woodworking sites and I am sure other venues, and attaching these ads. That is a security problem that needs to be addressed. For the record many companies sell off of Craig's List. To answer Kent's comment; no pawn shop takes credit cards.

Anyway the reason for posting this is simple. Please follow closely. The tread directly off the North Carolina website was dated; 8-20-2006. My PDF copy shows todays date on the bottom of the page. I also have a PDF copy of the ad, with the same info on the bottom of the PDF. The thread cannot be responded to or changed in anyway as it is closed. However it has a 2 or 3 day link attached to it that was active a short while ago. Just hours. The question is; how did it get there? Lets faces it, that was a long time ago.

I just spoke with a rep from NC woodworkers site. He will be checking to see with his tech savvy guys to see how that could happen. I do not know enough about this web stuff to comment other than to say; it doesn't work that way. And my primary concern (not to repeat myself), that someone else does not get ripped off. Especially because it is clear it happening through at least 1 woodworking site. If that kind of thing can help, what else?

So as you can see this is not about poor me. I can afford it. Can our other member's?

[ken carroll]

I saw this saw on the SF Bay Craigslist a couple weeks ago. It is still on there. If it weren't obviously a scam just based on the low price, the fact that the "seller" here called it a "3HP band saw" would be a good clue!

[Mark Engel]

Just to clarify one point.

What the OP 'found' on NCWW was not an ad for this SawStop scam. He found a thread, from 2006, where a user posted a link to the ad on CraigsList. Further reading of that thread reveals the CraigsList ad as a scam.

Please do not continue to call that thread an 'ad'. NCWW never advertised that scam.

[Matt Meiser]

No offense but a $1200 Sawstop that will be shipped and must be paid for by unrecoverable funds screams "SCAM" from the mountaintops. Its not a security issue that needs to be addressed, its a public education, people so willing to save a buck they ignore the obvious issue. Who cares if they purport to be a pawn shop.

[Larry Dunn]

Mark for the sake of getting the right information to the right folks maybe you can help me with something. I am not signed up on the NCWW website or what ever it is called. Of course I can't follow the thread with the information you spoke of. I just reviewed my PDF of the thread. And it does not go that far. Looking up at what I wrote I copied it here; " The thread directly off the North Carolina website was dated; 8-20-2006." Now this is no place to discuss software or the inner workings of the internet, but I think it does beg explanation. Here is how it works; if you have Adobe Acrobat (not Reader), you can make a PDF copy of the web page. Based on the Adobe software standard settings, you will pick up a certain amount of metadata from the site or thread or whatever you want to call it. In simple words; they posted a link over the link that had expired on the thread. This was something I stumbled onto. In other words I typed in 'sawstop craig's list'. I thought what the heck, this is from 2006 lets see what happens. My wife who was sitting here could not believe it when it went directly to a recent Craig's list ad. I made a PDF of that ad, (Craig's List). So at this point I now have a snap shot, (with date and time stamp) and the metadata taking me to the Craig's list ad. The metadata on the PDF copy takes the link right back to the NCWW thread. Its clearly shown on the PDF documents.

I hope that helps explain what happened. And as not an expert in these things I can only conclude that someone, somehow, added that link to the closed thread on the NCWW website. I don't believe in anyway that NCWW has anything to do with this, or the person that posted the thread. But it did happen.

As a side note about how good a deal this was, is to say; good deal yes, but within reason for many reasons that I find it not necessary to explain fully on this site. Anyone that would like can e-mail me directly if they care to get a better understanding of what I have, how I got it, and what could it possibly mean. Possibly is the key word here. The saw actually would cost you way more than $1200. $286 was added to ship anywhere in the US proper. What you would get is a used item, no warranty, that has a retail value of $3600. If the item was brokered by a Pawn shop, depending on the conditions, is slightly below what I think a used item such as this should go for, by about $600.

The point I am making and have made is; beware of it if you see the ad and it is clear based on my documentation, that someone somehow added that link to the NCWW thread. If they can do that, what else will they do on this site or other sites. Keep in mind the Craig's List ads are just ads that take you to what appears to be a legitimate seller.


I agree with everyone that this sale was ,as it has been put; almost too good to be true. My wife who has the tools, support groups, and the know how to check these people out came up clean. And in the process of checking some 8 - 10 or so I think, Craig's List ads (yes I found that many), were getting flagged by Craig's list almost as fast as I could get to them(yesterday). Of course I took PDF's of all of that as well.

I hope that helps someone out there. I further hope that anyone that has any relevant information would pass that on to me, via a direct e-mail through this site. As this is bigger than it appears and could not have possibly been done this way without it being a collective effort (lots of people). What will it morphosis into is anyone's guess. Or how it might effect these types of informational sharing sites and the security of the individuals that use the site.

[Jesse Busenitz]

I saw a ST ad on my local CL and my first thought was "that's a screaming deal!" , so I bookmarked it came back a couple hours later and it had been flagged. If something sounds too good to be true... it probably is.

[Harvey Miller]

Thanks for the heads up. To my mind dealing on Craig's list, or other classified ad site is truly the wild west. The only transactions to make are cash on the barrelhead for goods you can see, touch, and taste!

[Matt Meiser]

Based on the Adobe software standard settings, you will pick up a certain amount of metadata from the site or thread or whatever you want to call it. In simple words; they posted a link over the link that had expired on the thread.

Or a lot more likely, you have spyware on your computer.

[Jebediah Eckert]

I saw a ST ad on my local CL and my first thought was "that's a screaming deal!" , so I bookmarked it came back a couple hours later and it had been flagged. If something sounds too good to be true... it probably is.

Not knocking anyone who gets taken, it happens.........when it comes to CL I ALWAYS need a telephone number to talk about the item. You can tell a lot about a person or item over the phone. I may start with an email if the number is not available but I will ask for one so we can talk. If they don't give it I'm out. Once I get the number I google it. Sometimes it shows up on dozens of CL adds, that will tell you something. If I am selling something and your coming to my house I ask for your home number first. At least that way I also know where you live if things go south.

A few years ago I was looking for a side by side (John Deere Gator type vehicle) there are a ton. If it was way under market Value I didn't even bother. In this day and age with CL and EBay everyone pretty much knows what everything is worth, with very little exception, not much gets undersold.

[Larry Dunn]

I received this in an e-mail from someone else that has been scammed. I have NO thoughts of getting any money back. I copied it and pasted it below;
I agree with every you said. I am retired law enforcement and no the limitations
of powers. It is a fairly large operation as you said. Swapping phone numbers,
emails, texts, & chats. My tip off was the Fed ex email address then
asking to take a picture with my Driver license next to my my face for
verification. The email had many Grammer issues. Then I was able to reserve the
same unique item 4 times using 4 different emails even tho I had already bought
it and it was supposedly in transit to me