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Thread: Target and General Finishes

  1. #1

    Target and General Finishes

    I've noticed a lot of love for these 2 company's coatings on the web. In forums. In particular the water based offerings. What's up with that? Are they really so wonderful. Why is there never much mention of BM or SW or other company's coatings?

    I've used both. They are OK. I have not tried any other water based coatings (except Minwax poycrylic). For the record, I prefer General over Target mostly for the way it levels. Minwax polycrylic is not very good.

    It does appear that these 2 company's have sort of a niche on the net. Ever wonder how many paid posters are pumping these products?

    Thoughts??

  2. #2
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    I certainly agree with you in reference to Minwax Polycrylic. I tried it as an alternative to lacquer and it is harder to work with and not very attractive on the products I make.

  3. #3
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    I can't speak for Target's products, but I've used may gallons of several GF products and like them a lot. Specifically, EnduroVar, Enduro Clear Poly, and HP Poly. They all produce a beautiful finish. They spray beautifully, and brush very well, too. EnduroVar and Enduro Clear Poly are as chemically durable as most solvent based varnishes, and superior to many. I can spray year round with them in my basement shop with no fear of blowing myself up or poisoning myself. What's not to like? OK, they are expensive compared to some products but still a bargain in my book. If you've never used them you are in for a treat compared to Polycrylic.

    I'm not a paid poster, and have no affiliation with GF or any other company. The problem I see with BM and SW is they don't offer many WB clearcoat products targeted at the consumer or low volume user. Same wth ML Campbell. SW makes what I'm told is an excellent WB lacquer with a good UV package, but the minimum size is 5 gals. I haven't stopped in to a BM store to see what they have for the small volume user so I can't comment on them other than to say nothing popped out at me when I was looking at their website. GF and TC's products are relatively easy to get. Rockler and Woodcraft carry some GF products. Both companies sell on-line, GF through a couple of good sources, Target direct I think. There are several other products in the market place, Hood, Varathane, Rustoleum all have products easily available, probably others. I just haven't tried them. No reason to. The GF products are available in gallons or less, look good, are durable, and I've never had a problem with them.

    John

  4. #4
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    First of all, I'm not a "paid poster"... but, hey, if anyone out there is willing to give me money to say what I think of their products, bring it (the cash...) one!

    All jokes aside, I have no affiliation with Target Coatings nor General Finishes, and I have used both of their waterborne products. I have used Target Coatings line much more and for a greater amount of time over a wider variety of projects, so perhaps that's the reason I prefer their products over General Finishes. Like John (post #3) I've tried General Finishes EnduroVar, Enduro Clear Poly, and their HP Poly, but my experience with them wasn't as positive. I think that finishes are much like cars; some like Fords, others GM, while others prefer Toyota. It all depends on your experiences and what you're using the product for.

    I have such limited experience iwth ML Campbell and SW.

    Incidentally, I exclusively spray waterborne finishes, which I apply using a Kremlin Rexon air assisted airless system in my home based shop. I am only doing work for myself and my family and close friends as I stood down my business nearly 5 years ago.

    If you're interested in hearing more about why I like Target Coatings, please PM me.
    Marty Schlosser
    Kingston, ON, Canada
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/apexwoodworks/
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ApexWoodworksFurniture/
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkmbvXb44CJ9t17SbHEWxJg/videos

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Bell View Post
    I've noticed a lot of love for these 2 company's coatings on the web. In forums. In particular the water based offerings. What's up with that? Are they really so wonderful. Why is there never much mention of BM or SW or other company's coatings?

    I've used both. They are OK. I have not tried any other water based coatings (except Minwax poycrylic). For the record, I prefer General over Target mostly for the way it levels. Minwax polycrylic is not very good.

    It does appear that these 2 company's have sort of a niche on the net. Ever wonder how many paid posters are pumping these products?

    Thoughts??


    There's another company that makes a decent line of clear finishes: AquaCote:

    http://aquacoat.com/collections/products/water-based-top-coats-sanding-sealers

    I haven't tried their stuff yet, but I'm considering it. One good thing - Unlike GF, they are very easy to reach by phone, and have excellent tech support.

  6. #6
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    I have simply been using Target products for many years now after being introduced to them at a woodworking show a long time ago. Results have nearly always been what I expected and the one time I had a bad batch, they cheerfully replaced it at no cost to me. The only issue I have at the present time is the cost of shipping since the volume of work I do is very, very small and I don't need a larger quantity of the product. I can almost justify driving to their warehouse from here and back for about the same cost as shipping...if I disregard the time factor.

    I do have a liking for the BM Advance product for colored work at this point and can buy that locally. It's a water borne oil emulsion finish and sprays wonderfully with the same gun setup as target EM6xxx. It doesn't have the "burn in" that the Target product has, but I can live with that.

    That said, there are a number of companies that produce excellent water borne finishes. Choose what you like...and can get access to and enjoy using them.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
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    I tried Target in the past and worked really well. Earlier this year tried GF in both Endurovar and HP poly but results were not good. The motivation to try GF was local availability but I will look elsewhere in the future, perhaps back to Target or some other brand locally avilable.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Martin View Post
    I tried Target in the past and worked really well. Earlier this year tried GF in both Endurovar and HP poly but results were not good. The motivation to try GF was local availability but I will look elsewhere in the future, perhaps back to Target or some other brand locally avilable.

    In what way were the results "not good"? Curious to learn.

    John

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    In what way were the results "not good"? Curious to learn.

    John
    Agree. Please be more specific.

    Also, claims that wb finishes are as or more durable than solvent born are laughable to me. Id like to see some science to back those statements. Not "i used brand "x" wb finish on our cabinets and its holding up fine".
    Go into most pro shops and see what they are using. Rarely will you find one using wb products.
    Why wouldnt they? They are so easy to use... Water cleanup... less odor...non flamable...

  10. #10
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    I've posted test results several times where I compared GF's EnduroVar and Enduro Clear Poly and others against oil based polyurethane and they were equivalent or better in chemical and abrasion resistance. I can't say how they stack up to solvent base lacquer, etc. because I don't use them. I would guess that pro shops don't use WB products, unless required by law, because the solvent based ones dry faster, they are likely cheaper, and also because that's what they know. The reasons you cited, water clean up, low odor, non flammable, or the very reasons I started with WB when I moved to spraying. Those were compelling reasons and I've never had reason to regret the decision.

    John

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim mills View Post
    Go into most pro shops and see what they are using. Rarely will you find one using wb products.
    Why wouldnt they? They are so easy to use... Water cleanup... less odor...non flamable...
    This is something that's changing due to both VOC regulation and product availability. Geography can enter into this, too, relative to local regulations.

    That said, for the average small shop pro or enthusiastic hobbyist who wants to spray finishes, water borne products are likely the best choice, particularly for safety reasons. Spraying solvent based finishes without a properly equipped facility can be unwise...and downright dangerous. Early water borne products were "less worthy" than many of the formulations available today, too.

    It's good to have choices.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #12
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    Agree with everything you say Jim. For hobyists, WB finishes make life a lot easier, and performance is good, but to suggest they are as good or better just aint so. There are six small cabinet/furniture shops within a 3 block radius (that I know of) of mine, and every one of them says the same thing. "too many callbacks with WB finishes". My experiences were the same. Water damage on the face of the sink bases, and steam from coffee makers were a common problem.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim mills View Post
    ...Also, claims that wb finishes are as or more durable than solvent born are laughable to me. Id like to see some science to back those statements......
    Here's a recent thread about my experiments in that regard. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ght=waterborne

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    In what way were the results "not good"? Curious to learn.

    John
    John, I could never get rid of orange peel. The finish never truly flattened. This was on a peruvian walnut dining table. You did respond to my request for help and I did get the clear poly, the performance was the same. I really wanted to make GF work, but could not. I ended up going back to bare wood 2 times and finally finished with oil based poly. Result was much better than what I got with the GF finishes. So, I could not get GF to work for me. Still have most of the gallon each of the finish that I will likely take to recycling.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Martin View Post
    John, I could never get rid of orange peel. The finish never truly flattened. This was on a peruvian walnut dining table. You did respond to my request for help and I did get the clear poly, the performance was the same. I really wanted to make GF work, but could not. I ended up going back to bare wood 2 times and finally finished with oil based poly. Result was much better than what I got with the GF finishes. So, I could not get GF to work for me. Still have most of the gallon each of the finish that I will likely take to recycling.
    Frank, that's really disappointing. For me, GF HP Poly and Enduro Clear Poly lay down absolutely flat. I do have orange peel problems with EnduroVar unless I thin it about 5%. To be honest, I also thin HP Poly about 6% to get the viscosity down low enough to flow through my 1.8 mm gravity HVLP feed conversion gun. Enduro Clear Poly I spray straight from the can through the same set up. Are you using a turbine gun or do you live where it's really hot and dry? Those two things might explain why you are having problems. What's your set up? Did you try adding Enduro Extender? There has to be an easy solution for you. Happy to try and help.

    John

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