Japanese chisels leather hoop?

[Mark Gibney]

I got a cheap set of Japanese chisels, and I'm thinking of replacing the metal hoop with something that allows me to push them comfortably with my hands. So I'm thinking of replacing the metal hoop with leather.

I haven't used Japanese chisels before, and maybe they are comfortable to use with the mushroomed end against the palm of your hand, so please feel free to better inform me.

If I do go the leather route, anyone know where I can get some really thick leather to use, or will I have to glue up of several pieces of leather to get to the thickness I want, drill a hole, cut out around it, soak it in water, and fit it to the handle?

Any advice welcome!

[Jim Koepke]

Why not leave the end rounded wood?

Some of my chisels have handles with leather washers on the end.

All the handles of my own making are plain wood on the end.

One of my handles had leather on the end but was so ragged it was removed and the end of the handle sanded. Sometimes they will get light taps from a wood mallet.

My understanding is the hoops on Japanese chisels are because they are made to be struck with a metal hammer instead of a wood mallet.

jtk

[Trevor Goodwin]

I've read on these forums and other sites countless times that some people don't like Japanese chisels because of the hoops. I've also read that they can be set up to be comfortable if they are mushroomed carefully and the sharp edges on the hoop removed.

Last night I dragged out a 24mm Japanese chisel I bought ages ago and didn't get around to setting up. Before setting up the hoop, I decided to leave it off and see how the chisel performed without the hoop. When I do use a mallet on my chisels it's either plastic, wood, or a brass carving mallet, so do I need the hoop anyway? My butt chisels and carving chisels are just wooden handles and they handle being beaten just fine. I filed the sharp edges off the end of the handle and took it for a spin. It was very comfortable to hold and held up to mallet blows just fine. As I understand the handles are made from skinny branches with the very hard pith running through the middle to help transfer the shock to the blade. If I start to get splitting, I'll consider putting a hoop on, but make smaller ones that can sit flush with the handle like European hooped chisel handles.

What puzzles me is why I can't find any evidence of others doing what I've done, and why none of the Japanese chisel stores sell "hoopless" bench chisels for the western market. I know it's traditional in japan to tap the chisel with a steel hammer, but frankly I have no interest in adhering to their tradition here is Australia, I just want to use their awesome blades.

[Mike Henderson]

I replaced the handles on my Japanese chisels with western style handles. I turned the handles myself. The hardest thing was getting the old handles off. Once I had the old handles off it was pretty easy to make new handles that fit.

Below is a picture of one of my Japanese chisels with a western handle.

I can push them, I can hit them (with a wooden mallet), I can do the same things with them as I do with my western chisels - which is exactly what I wanted.

Mike

[You can see how I did the handles here.]

New handles Japanese chisels 027.jpg

[ken hatch]

I got a cheap set of Japanese chisels, and I'm thinking of replacing the metal hoop with something that allows me to push them comfortably with my hands. So I'm thinking of replacing the metal hoop with leather.

I haven't used Japanese chisels before, and maybe they are comfortable to use with the mushroomed end against the palm of your hand, so please feel free to better inform me.

If I do go the leather route, anyone know where I can get some really thick leather to use, or will I have to glue up of several pieces of leather to get to the thickness I want, drill a hole, cut out around it, soak it in water, and fit it to the handle?

Any advice welcome!

Mark,

My question is why? There are Japanese chisels for pushing and Japanese chisels for chopping. The Japanese "push" chisels are perfected for paring or pushing with long handles and thin flexible blades, every thing you need in a chisel for paring. A well set hoop on the shorter chisels is comfortable to use on the push but they are designed to chop using a hammer. I would set the hoops, do a google on setting the hoops on Japanese chisels, and use them first, if the hoops are well set they should be comfortable for light paring. If not buy some "push" chisels.

ken

[Mark Gibney]

Well Ken, maybe I'll do that and see if they are comfortable to push. But I love the handle Mike put on his chisel, it's beautiful, and if I thought I could make handles like that I'd go for it.

Like Trevor says, there might be a market for Japanese bench chisels that have western type handles.

[Jim Koepke]

But I love the handle Mike put on his chisel, it's beautiful, and if I thought I could make handles like that I'd go for it.

The way to learn making handles like Mike's is to get a lathe and start spinning.

jtk

[ken hatch]

Well Ken, maybe I'll do that and see if they are comfortable to push. But I love the handle Mike put on his chisel, it's beautiful, and if I thought I could make handles like that I'd go for it.

Like Trevor says, there might be a market for Japanese bench chisels that have western type handles.

Mark,

A properly set hoop should be as comfortable as a "push" chisel, I know mine are. Set your hoop, I use a socket to set the hoop. If after setting more than about 3mm of handle is showing saw it off. To soften the handle I will soak in alcohol till soft then holding the chisel in hand and using a steel hammer flair the end grain. You should end up with a smooth flair that meets the hoop. Really isn't hard to do and you end up with a chisel that is good to use as intended.

ken

[Mike Henderson]

The way to learn making handles like Mike's is to get a lathe and start spinning.

jtk

You can buy one of those small benchtop lathes and learn how to turn. They're not very expensive. If you like turning you can upgrade to a larger lathe later.

The only constraint on the small lathes is that you can't turn things that are too long or too big (such as a big bowl).

They're really good to learn on.

Mike

[And right now, they're probably on sale. They go on sale fairly often.]

[Dave Lehnert]

Think I would just use a pair of leather gloves.
I like the motorcycle gloves without fingers.
I buy them at Flea Markets. Amazon has them for $6.99

[Brian Holcombe]

Well Ken, maybe I'll do that and see if they are comfortable to push. But I love the handle Mike put on his chisel, it's beautiful, and if I thought I could make handles like that I'd go for it.

Like Trevor says, there might be a market for Japanese bench chisels that have western type handles.

i suppose you can push with western bench chisels, but all the same both have chisels dedicated for both operations. There are other changes made to accommodate the operation such as how thin the blade is. Most chisels made for paring also have long handles, which would be really awkward to use with a mallet.

[Trevor Goodwin]

Mark,

A properly set hoop should be as comfortable as a "push" chisel, I know mine are. Set your hoop, I use a socket to set the hoop. If after setting more than about 3mm of handle is showing saw it off. To soften the handle I will soak in alcohol till soft then holding the chisel in hand and using a steel hammer flair the end grain. You should end up with a smooth flair that meets the hoop. Really isn't hard to do and you end up with a chisel that is good to use as intended.

ken

My hoops have square edges, I imagine if they were nicely rounded they would be comfortable. But still, I don't need the hoop so why bother setting them? Sometimes I want to tap the chisel with a mallet, something I want to grasp it in my palm and push it, and I sure as heck don't want have to swap to a different chisel to do this.

[ken hatch]

My hoops have square edges, I imagine if they were nicely rounded they would be comfortable. But still, I don't need the hoop so why bother setting them? Sometimes I want to tap the chisel with a mallet, something I want to grasp it in my palm and push it, and I sure as heck don't want have to swap to a different chisel to do this.

Trevor,

Last time I looked so do mine.

Everyone works differently but if I need to pare I much prefer to use a paring chisel. It is not unusual to have a half dozen or more chisels on my bench while I work, some bench chisels, some paring and many time a mix of Japanese and western. Each has its place.

ken