Looking for help with Sargent transitional plane

[Shawn Christ]

Hi all, hand plane rookie here. I recently acquired a Sargent 3424 transitional plane from a fellow Creeker and am having a couple issues with reassembly.

When disassembling the frog for cleanup, I mistakenly unscrewed the threaded rod while trying to remove the brass adjuster nut (which, ironically, doesn't want to come off). It seems this damaged the threads at the end of the rod and I can't get it to thread back into the frog. As far as I can tell the rod is 28 tpi and a thread file is doing a decent job restoring the threads. The female threads in the frog appear to be OK, but I just can't get it to re-thread. If you think I'm on the right track, I'll keep filing away and try again.

Also, I'm having troubles getting the tote to tighten down. It wants to lift up at the front, won't stay seated on the plane. I flattened the bottom of the tote to fit better on the body but it just won't tighten down. I also tried adding a slight bend in the bolt but that didn't help. I'm wondering if 1) the handle bolt is too long and should be shortened, or 2) I should drill a hole at the front of the tote and add a wood screw for added support. Maybe both.

Suggestions appreciated!

[Rick Whitehead]

Two things come to mind. First of all, are the threads on the frog adjustment screw left-handed?
Second, the rear handle may have shrunk, leaving the bolt too long. Try reducing the length of the rod by 1/8" or so and see if the handle tightens down better.
Rick

[steven c newman]

Per the Adjuster bolt....turn it around. start it from the other end.

Per the rear handle. Not only did I add a toe bolt to my #3416....I threaded the iron frame for the bolt
toe bolt.jpg
Actually, this is from a Stanley No. 28 or No. 29.

On the Sargent's frames, they also have a screw to hold the frame in place at that spot where a toe bolt would go. Though, sometimes, the screw is also right under the wheel.

As for the threaded rod being too long? I have been known to cut a bit off of the rods. Might try about 1/8 off? Just at the bottom end.

[Shawn Christ]

The adjuster nut is right hand thread (clockwise tighten). I was able to remove the nut from the adjuster bolt, turned it around, and it still won't thread. At the risk of sounding dumb, I'm starting to suspect this is not the correct adjuster bolt for this frog, I think it's too small. The threads in the frog start right at the surface yet I'm able to sink the bolt 3/16" into the frog before it meets any resistance. If so, that would explain why the bolt came off so easily during dis-assembly.

As for the tote rod, I'll shorten that 1/8" and see if that helps and add a toe screw if needed. There is a pre-drilled (non-threaded) hole in the frame right at that spot so it should be a snap. Can you find straight slot wood screws in the hardware stores anymore?

[steven c newman]

Since the threads are the same on both the rod, and the wheel....why not just "chase the threads on both with the next size tap? The get a length of all-thread thesame size as the tap, cut it to the same length as the OEM one. Then, you can add a spot of "Thread-Lock" in the bottom of the hole in the frog. When you go to installing the new rod, wrap the threads in cloth, and then the pliers to tighten the rod in place.

At the BORG, they have those drawers of "Specialty fasteners".....that is where you can find the slotted bolts and screws. You could even dress this plane up a bit....buy all brass bolts and screws....
brass screws.jpgbrass bolts.jpgIMAG0075.jpgtest track.jpgThis one is the sargent #3416

[Shawn Christ]

Steven, to make sure I understand you correctly, are you suggesting I enlarge the existing hole (next size larger) in the brass nut/wheel and also the hole in the frog to match, then make a new rod using all-thread threaded rod? I don't own a tap and die set but that doesn't mean I can't ask Santa for one!

Thanks for the tip on the BORG and brass hardware. Like that idea, looks sharp on your plane.

And BTW, shortening the tote rod did the trick, nice and tight now so that problem is solved. Nice work gents.

[Jim Koepke]

And BTW, shortening the tote rod did the trick, nice and tight now so that problem is solved. Nice work gents.

My tendency is to use washers in a situation such as this. As is often my comment, whatever works.

As far as the frog and adjuster go, look to ebay. Parts for transitional planes are commonly listed and usually inexpensively.

For me, tapping nuts and bolts to a different size is my last choice. It is a common approach since the original screws and bolts are no longer used in modern manufacturing. Finding taps and dies for some of the sizes is near impossible.

jtk

[steven c newman]

A lot of times....a 1/4" by 20 tap will work just fine, and a bit of all-thread the same length as the old one will also work, since the threads on this plane are right-hand threads. There will not be much of a change in size, either.

IF you want, you can look up nhplaneparts.com as Eric has a store on ebay. You can even contact him to see IF he would have a frog that fits your plane. Might run you $15-20 + S&H.....