New to Hand Planes and Starting a Collection

[Patrick Chase]

A basic bench plane kit (not joinery or molding planes) would consist of 4 planes: a fore plane, a try plane, a smoothing plane and a jointer plane. This kit is based on the function of the planes, not the size/number of each plane. It's function is somewhat determined by size (with some wiggle room), but mainly on how it is set up.

Fore plane. This is really only necessary if you are flattening/leveling rough stock. Depending on the quality of your glue-ups, you may or may not need one. It is the workhorse of planes, and generally has a heavily cambered iron, a wide mouth, and is in the medium size range. A number 5 is pretty common, and is what I use.

Try plane. After leveling the board, it is further flattened and smoothed with a try plane. The iron has a less pronounced camber and it takes finer shavings. The sole is generally larger than the fore plane to help with overall flatness. I use a number 6 for this purpose

Smoothing plane. As it's name suggests this is used for final smoothing to give you (hopefully) a finish ready surface. This has a tight mouth and very little camber to the iron (some people prefer no camber and dubbed corners). Most of the smaller planes are designed for this, with the most popular being a number 3 or number 4. I generally reach for a 4 1/2 for smoothing.

Jointer plane. This is primarily used to joint the edges of longer boards for joinery or glue up. They are longer planes to provide a large reference surface, helping to ensure a straight edge. Very little to no camber on the blade makes this ideal for creating flat edges, perfect for glue ups. Numbers 7 & 8 are common, though smaller planes are fine for smaller work. I use a number 8.

With these four planes (remember it is the setup that is critical, not the particular number or size) you can do just about anything you need to in the shop. Add in a block plane, shoulder plane, and router plane and you are golden. Your #62 is perfect for shooting end grain or even being used as a large smoother. It could be a jointer for smaller boards - it all depends on how you set it up.

I've never used a Bedrock, but I get great results from my Bailey pattern planes. I can't imagine that the Bedrocks are worth the hype, but again I've never used one, so I don't know.

IMO the Bedrock configuration isn't worth it. Yes, you can adjust the frog without removing the blade and yes, that makes it easier to get the rotation axis set up so that the mouth opening is uniform, but in my experience it's a very marginal gain. Not worth the premium those planes command relative to their Baily-pattern counterparts.

I think your description of the commoh planes is spot-on, with one modification: The "try" and "jointer" planes are often combined into one, usually a #7 or #8. The #6 is traditionally a Fore plane (which you correctly describe), though like you I've used my #6 as both try and jointer in the past (before I had both #7 and #8 planes) and it works just fine provided the blade is set up properly. Obviously a 6 with the blade cambered for use as a Fore will not be useful as try/jointer. Surface flattening and edge jointing are similar enough that you don't really even need different blade configurations for the two.

[Robert Engel]

Great advice. Very appreciated. I think I'll pick up the 604, 605, and then a No. 7 jointer. That should be a good start. It doesn't sound like my #62 will be much use to me, at least not in comparison to the others. Thanks again for the feedback.

That's a good selection for what you want to do. But a Bedrock is going to be a top dollar plane in today's collector driven market. For the money I recommend check out the WoodRiver lline of planes at Woodcraft.

[Patrick Chase]

That's a good selection for what you want to do. But a Bedrock is going to be a top dollar plane in today's collector driven market. For the money I recommend check out the WoodRiver lline of planes at Woodcraft.

In my experience the collectibility of a plane is very often inversely proportional to its usefulness as a tool. The reason is simple: These were commoditized mass-market tools, not paintings or statues. Stanley's goal was to maximize profit, and the way they did that was to keep manufacturing costs low (hence inventions like the bent-sheet-metal cap iron) and sell as many as they could.

If an entire plane model (as opposed to a specific rare subtype within a model) is collectable today, then that means Stanley wasn't able to sell it in volume at the time. And that means that craftspeople didn't perceive a need for it. Over the years I've bought a few modern replicas of such "rare" planes, and by and large I have come to understand why nobody bought them to begin with.
I have 4 Bed Rock clones right now (2 L-N, 2 WR), and I can understand exactly why the "lower end" Bailey pattern planes outsold the Bed Rocks - they weren't worth the premium then, and they certainly aren't worth the used-market premium now (it's different with new planes, since "Bed Rock propaganda" has become so pervasive with the help of sources like FWW that most quality metal planes are in fact Bed Rocks. Veritas is the big exception).

[Jim Koepke]

I have had a few Bedrocks go through my shop.

(NOTE the through... )

I have found them at various pawn shops, antique shops, junk stores and yard sales.

They do have a slightly different feel when in use. What I love about them is being able to find one cheap and then sell it to someone who wants the name.

So if you want the Bedrock mystique but not the price, look for some of the other planes with the same design. The Keen Kutter K series is a good example.

Another would be the early Bedrocks with the round sides. They do not draw a premium like the flat top Bedrocks.

When all is said and done, a good type 9 Stanley/Bailey plane is a fine user.

Sargent had a contender in this market. The Shaw's patent design adjusts the frog without changing the blade adjustment. I do not know how those go for price.

How often to people actually adjust their frogs?

For me, it is less expensive to have multiple #5 planes set up differently instead of having a single plane that always needs to be adjusted for the job at hand. Currently there are four #5 planes in my shop and the total cost was less than $45, some spare parts and fettling time.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

When all is said and done, a good type 9 Stanley/Bailey plane is a fine user.

SInce the OP probably has no idea what a "type" is, behold the triumph of OCD that is the Type Study (linking directly to type 9 - trust me, you don't want to read too much more): http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/sta...y.php#Type%209

[Jim Koepke]

SInce the OP probably has no idea what a "type" is, behold the triumph of OCD that is the Type Study (linking directly to type 9 - trust me, you don't want to read too much more): http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/sta...y.php#Type%209

Well, you know me and always wanting pictures. That is why this is my favorite type study:

http://www.rexmill.com/planes101/typing/typing.htm

Sorry, have to scroll down for the type 9 page.

BTW, almost every type study has errors or omission. Some due to old parts on a "type update" some due to unnoticed changes when the studies were first done. Type 6 started with right hand threads on the depth adjuster and ended with left hand threads. Type 9 started with a small fin in the casting and ended up with a rounded hump more like the type 10 and later. I am sure there are other small anomalies throughout the years.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Well, you know me and always wanting pictures. That is why this is my favorite type study:

http://www.rexmill.com/planes101/typing/typing.htm

Sorry, have to scroll down for the type 9 page.

BTW, almost every type study has errors or omission. Some due to old parts on a "type update" some due to unnoticed changes when the studies were first done. Type 6 started with right hand threads on the depth adjuster and ended with left hand threads. Type 9 started with a small fin in the casting and ended up with a rounded hump more like the type 10 and later. I am sure there are other small anomalies throughout the years.

jtk

Miore broadly, when buying an old Bailey plane the choice of type boils down to a tradeoff between refinement (genuinely beneficial new features added as time went on) and debasement ("features" added mostly to reduce cost). Both were happening at the same time, so it isn't as simple as "the peak is between X and Y"). I think it's safe to say that you don't want to touch anything newer than WW2 as it was all pretty much debasement from there, but before that there were both hits and misses. For example type 3 (probably Stanley's attempt to cost-reduce the design they'd bought from Bailey) was a clear "miss" and step backwards IMO.

Types 9-11 (which are mechanically very similar) represent a sustained run of "hits".

[Jim Koepke]

I think it's safe to say that you don't want to touch anything newer than WW2

I am a bit more picky. 1930 is when the ring around the knob started. My preference is mostly for the low knob. With the ring a short knob doesn't work. 1933 is when the ogee frog started. I like that even less than tall knobs.

These are my personal preferences. It doesn't mean there are no good planes in those years, it just means they are not the ones of my preference.

jtk

[steven c newman]

My version of a "Plane Collection"...
FULL till.jpg
About half Stanleys, and half Millers Falls. There is also a collection of wood bodied planes elsewhere in the shop.

[Phil Mueller]

+1 what Roy said...my plane numbers are a bit different, but set up for use as he described.
I have the 62 you own. I guess I was lucky to get one pretty darn flat and square. The biggest negative for me is the large amount of play in the iron adjustment. Tons of backlash. Once set, and locked down, it's fine, but making precision adjustments can be frustrating. If you keep that in mind, in can be a user. For that reason, it doesn't get that much use. I'm considering either trueing it up a bit more as a dedicated shooter, or put a cambered iron in it for rough dimensioning.

in addition, I have restored a Stanley Defiant #4 (lesser quality end of the war model), and a few garage sale block planes to use for cleaning up glue lines and other rough work prior to running my better planes.

[Bill Rhodus]

i also have a pair of the newer 62 stanleys and find them to be adequate tools. not quite the quality of a veritas, and not worth the possible trouble for the minor difference in list price. however, these were purchased for $109 delivered from the net and the veritas was about $200.

[Archie England]

Bedrocks and vintage Stanley/Bailey handplanes are breakable if dropped. They also can have a lot of micro-issues to trim out before working flawlessly; but, these vintage planes can really perform well. From a type 8 to 17, these old planes have served me well. Though I prefer types 10-13, any type that works becomes my favorite.

I finally broke down and bought a LV and a LN (block planes and/or specialty planes--router, shoulder, plow). These are terrific handplanes. The ductile metal in these newer planes will not break, and the companies stand behind them 100%. With the better blades and better designs, the planes have fewer to no micro-issues to fix before using. However, the work produced is not usually better than what tuned, vintage planes can produce. Consequently, usefulness is perhaps a better criteria for purchasing than collectible.

As others above pointed out, there are several quality vintage brands (Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls, Keen Kutter, Winchester, and Ohio), along with some others that are a tad more hit or miss (Vaughn/Bushnell, Corsair, Craftsman--red or blue label). Often, a shorter blade may indicate that the plane was a genuine user; so, if complete, buy those and purchase replacement blades as needed.

have fun!

[Prashun Patel]

Cooper-

(glib answer alert)

Have you invested in good sharpening equipment? IMHO, that is the key to success with bladed hand tools. If you have not, I'd start there, and work on your marriage with your 602 first. Once you've become facile with sharpening, then you can entertain the thought of a new (or second, third) wife.

[lowell holmes]

To get started, I suggest you find a used #3 or #4 Stanley Bailey and use it a while to get acquainted with planes. That would get you started and enable you to make your own mind up about planes.
You should be able to find one reasonably priced. I would look for an older plane. You should be forewarned that they multiply like rabbits.