Glowforge release

[Matt McCoy]

Well it seems now here anyway we are seeing the results of a dumping on eBay ultra-cheap 40, 50 and now 60 watt machines. Customer gets them, they don't work out of the box. Seller offers a money back guarantee only if the laser is returned to China.... but it was shipped from USA. New boat anchor owner comes here to get it running. A $300 machine as advertised is not going to make it. I own both a 3D printer and a laser.

Eh? I was under the impression the eBay/Paypal policies boiled down to, you only have to get it back to the seller..."shipped from USA" implies a US-based seller.

It is against Ebay's TOS to misrepresent where an item ships from. If a listing states that it ships from China, but actually arrives from a warehouse in the U.S., (or vice versa) this would probably be a violation.

[Doug Griffith]

Most of the bigger industrials have a gas supply to the optics where exposed to keep them free of detritus. It's possible GF could do the same but with air, that said the air would have to be very clean or would become a source of contamination itself.

Sealed path optics in bigger lasers isn't at all unusual, I'm not saying GF have done it, just that it is very possible and has been done before.

Think of it as an air curtain. It's possible.

This brings up a related issue. Supposedly the GF has built in air assist. It also has the option for exhaust filtering. Just how loud is it going to be when running it in the kitchen? It only has a plastic case so... I consider this another deception.

[Jason Hilton]

Think of it as an air curtain. It's possible.

This brings up a related issue. Supposedly the GF has built in air assist. It also has the option for exhaust filtering. Just how loud is it going to be when running it in the kitchen? It only has a plastic case so... I consider this another deception.

So because you don't have data you're automatically being lied to?

[Dave Stevens-Vegas]

Well it seems now here anyway we are seeing the results of a dumping on eBay ultra-cheap 40, 50 and now 60 watt machines. Customer gets them, they don't work out of the box. Seller offers a money back guarantee only if the laser is returned to China.... but it was shipped from USA. New boat anchor owner comes here to get it running. A $300 machine as advertised is not going to make it. I own both a 3D printer and a laser.

If you get an item from ebay that doesn't work out of the box the seller is responsible for correcting the issue and that includes return shipping. If it works and you don't like it you are responsible for the return shipping. If it's broken file a claim with ebay. If you don't have resolution in a few days you can escalate it and ebay will make the determination.

[Doug Griffith]

So because you don't have data you're automatically being lied to?

I don't need data when the answer is right in front of me. I have yet to see an air delivery system with enough CFM (to do what an air assist does in a laser system) that is even remotely quiet. Add to that another air extraction system for the filtration and you have quite a bit of noise. Loud actually. There are not a whole lot of options when it comes to this. Diaphram, piston and rotary vane all make a lot of noise. Axial fans are quiet but do not have enough static pressure to push air through a tube. It will just cavitate. Blower fans are also quiet and have more static pressure but still not enough to blow through a small tube with enough volume to blow the slag out of the kerf. So if their system is quiet, I can almost guaranty that their "air assist" is just enough of a puff to put out the flame. It would not be a true air assist then. The blower used for the air extraction system faces the exact same problems.

If they have a air assist in their machine that actually does what a true air assist does and is quiet, I'll buy a GF just to pull it out of and use with my Epilog. I'll put the rest of the parts on eBay.

[Kev Williams]

Concerning how noisy- Gary should back me up here :grin:--

The GCC Explorer, when rastering back & forth while the acrylic lid is up, sounds akin to pushing a skateboard back & forth on the driveway at the same speed, not particularly quiet--- but shut the lid, and it becomes almost dead silent. It's eerie, actually...

As for quiet air assist, a miniature roots blower comes to mind

[Bert Kemp]

Yes were being lied to!! no doubt about it.Theres so many lies on theIr website that you can't believe anything they tell you. RIGHT FROM THE NAME OF THE MACHINE TO THE DATE THEIR GONNA SHIP IT AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN IS PRETTY MUCH A LIE.

So because you don't have data you're automatically being lied to?

[Dave Stevens-Vegas]

I don't see what the emotional attachment is to the detractors of this machine. If it's not for you, leave it and move on. Taking as a personal affront the perception you are being "lied to" I see as not exactly rational. It's a laser cutter, guys. That's all. It may have some new features in low cost machines or a new sort of UI. They aren't lying to you, they have just missed goals. Hardware is hard and most hardware startups, particularly crowd funded hardware startups with no previous experience, have a difficult time and miss goals on an alarmingly frequent basis. These are late most all of the time. Those that don't or didn't realize it weren't paying attention.

It reminds of of the days when people said TV didn't need to be in color, didn't need more than a few channels and why in the world would anyone want a computer at home. Things change. This could be part of it. Or it could be a turd circling the bowl. Time will tell.

[Matt McCoy]

Think of it as an air curtain. It's possible.

This brings up a related issue. Supposedly the GF has built in air assist. It also has the option for exhaust filtering. Just how loud is it going to be when running it in the kitchen? It only has a plastic case so... I consider this another deception.

I don't need data when the answer is right in front of me. I have yet to see an air delivery system with enough CFM (to do what an air assist does in a laser system) that is even remotely quiet. Add to that another air extraction system for the filtration and you have quite a bit of noise. Loud actually. There are not a whole lot of options when it comes to this. Diaphram, piston and rotary vane all make a lot of noise. Axial fans are quiet but do not have enough static pressure to push air through a tube. It will just cavitate. Blower fans are also quiet and have more static pressure but still not enough to blow through a small tube with enough volume to blow the slag out of the kerf. So if their system is quiet, I can almost guaranty that their "air assist" is just enough of a puff to put out the flame. It would not be a true air assist then. The blower used for the air extraction system faces the exact same problems.

If they have a air assist in their machine that actually does what a true air assist does and is quiet, I'll buy a GF just to pull it out of and use with my Epilog. I'll put the rest of the parts on eBay.

Not sure what you're saying here other than compressors and blowers are noisy, therefore GF stinks and is using deception or your Epilog needs air assist because it doesn't currently have it.

I don't recall seeing that the GF was touted as being whisper quiet.

[Doug Griffith]

Not sure what you're saying here other than compressors and blowers are noisy, therefore GF stinks and is using deception or your Epilog needs air assist because it doesn't currently have it.

I don't recall seeing that the GF was touted as being whisper quiet.

Advertising it in the kitchen implies that it can be used in the kitchen. To use it in the kitchen would require an evacuation system. Air assist should almost always be used, especially by noobs to help prevent flare ups. It is akin to a chainsaw powered baby stroller. When a mother who has no idea how loud a chainsaw is sees it in an advertisement and purchases it thinking her baby will be happy. The same thing as someone who has no idea what a laser is and thinks they can use it in their kitchen while sipping a glass of wine and nibbling on cheese. The new laser owner will have a rude awakening. They should quit pushing that kitchen ad and put it in the garage where it belongs.

[Matt McCoy]

Advertising it in the kitchen implies that it can be used in the kitchen. To use it in the kitchen would require an evacuation system. Air assist should almost always be used, especially by noobs to help prevent flare ups. It is akin to a chainsaw powered baby stroller. When a mother who has no idea how loud a chainsaw is sees it in an advertisement and purchases it thinking her baby will be happy. The same thing as someone who has no idea what a laser is and thinks they can use it in their kitchen while sipping a glass of wine and nibbling on cheese. The new laser owner will have a rude awakening. They should quit pushing that kitchen ad and put it in the garage where it belongs.

The GF has these options or you can connect your own (like any other laser system). Why is the kitchen a hang-up? They do demos in their office, while holding a normal conversation. Take the appliances and sink out of a kitchen and it's just a room. Also, lots of folks do not have garages.

[Bert Kemp]

WOW Dave if you don't think their lying you better go read the ad's again. biggest lie 3D Laser Printer. Its not in any way shape or form a 3d laser printer, and thats just the beginning.

I don't see what the emotional attachment is to the detractors of this machine. If it's not for you, leave it and move on. Taking as a personal affront the perception you are being "lied to" I see as not exactly rational. It's a laser cutter, guys. That's all. It may have some new features in low cost machines or a new sort of UI. They aren't lying to you, they have just missed goals. Hardware is hard and most hardware startups, particularly crowd funded hardware startups with no previous experience, have a difficult time and miss goals on an alarmingly frequent basis. These are late most all of the time. Those that don't or didn't realize it weren't paying attention.

It reminds of of the days when people said TV didn't need to be in color, didn't need more than a few channels and why in the world would anyone want a computer at home. Things change. This could be part of it. Or it could be a turd circling the bowl. Time will tell.

[Lee DeRaud]

They do demos in their office, while holding a normal conversation.

Most machines will do that if you pick a material that doesn't put off a lot of smoke, put the extraction blower in a separate sound-insulated room and turn it down to the minimum required airflow, and do vector cuts. At that point, in terms of kitchen noise, it's about like having the dishwasher running. For general use, with the blower at full capacity and doing raster, it's more like dishwasher plus stove vent blower plus disposal...not my idea of a calm, quiet environment.

It also depends on what you call "normal conversation": guys stand around talking in front of a car with the hood up and the engine running, but that's not "inside voices".

[Jason Hilton]

Most machines will do that if you pick a material that doesn't put off a lot of smoke, put the extraction blower in a separate sound-insulated room and turn it down to the minimum required airflow, and do vector cuts. At that point, in terms of kitchen noise, it's about like having the dishwasher running. For general use, with the blower at full capacity and doing raster, it's more like dishwasher plus stove vent blower plus disposal...not my idea of a calm, quiet environment.

It also depends on what you call "normal conversation": guys stand around talking in front of a car with the hood up and the engine running, but that's not "inside voices".

I got a ULS demo in a close corporate office with no air filter or exhaust pipe. The demo was engraving wood and cutting acrylic. The air compressor was run in the other room to keep it quiet. I got a demo of a Trotec Speedy 100 exhausted out the window in a 7x9foot room. People put lasers everywhere.

You guys are really reaching now, maybe get some help figuring out where your rage is actually coming from and direct it there?

[Matt McCoy]

They're simple and quick demos to show interesting features that might be appealing to a casual home hobbyist that might set a GF up in a kitchen and make little projects as opposed to light industrial or shop installations. You are welcome to examine them more closely on YouTube.

I don't think I should have to explain "normal conversation".