Glowforge release

[Matt McCoy]

You seem to think that "proprietary" implies "patentable". It's the other way around.
Hopefully you'll figure that out before I run out of ways to say it.

Hopefully you'll figure out what the discussion is about, instead of getting lost in the weeds.

[Michael Henriksen]

Judging from posts on various FB groups, a lot of the people who ordered a GF had not heard of laser cutter/engravers before and are not aware of what is already out there on the market. Since they have nothing to compare it to I'm sure they will be blisfully happy with their GF provideded they actually receive one. There are also a lot of people who seem perfectly happy with their K40 lasers. I rate those as a pile of poo and purely based on specs and current customer feedback, the GF doesn't impress me either. However I'm not in the target market anyway, so it's no skin off my nose GF do what they do.

What does amaze is just how much marketing bull you can get away with as a business. It's the over-hyped performance and dishonesty about shipping that really puts me off a product like the GF and is what prompts me to speak up about it. I also strongly dislike the fact that they are calling it a printer which people think of as a harmless domestic product. I don't think it is a suitable label for a laser that can cause serious harm to people and property if not treated with respect.

Regardless of Matt's claims to the opposite, the only thing I find groundbreaking about GF is that they managed to take that many orders for a product that didn't exist at the time. Two years down the line it's still not fully developed despite claims they have poured millions into it. Their real skill is not in laser manufacturing but in viral marketing.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have been following the glowforge forum and see complaints about what they call proof grade material that cost more than what is out there and not cutting correctly. Acrylic that has a melted edge and people come on and say that is how acrylic looks when cut

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm afraid so. It is embedded code that mirrors the big banner update at the top of the page. Try it now and compare it word for word.

When the banner is updated with the latest shipping info, the legacy posts will update with this message too. Make a note and check that link when the counter moves again.

What's any of that got to do with the actual post by Dan S, 20 months ago, saying they were shipping Day 14 orders out of Day 30, 20 months ago? That's not a BANNER, that's a POST. Read his POST that's UNDER the banner.

I don't need to compare anything, I'm comparing what YOU said versus what is in an UPDATE THREAD ON GF, posted by the CEO on Feb 25th, 2016.

Here's what I did.....

I took what YOU posted and then I took what HE posted and put them together. Nothing for me to be wrong about. It's YOUR words and HIS words together. You keep asking us to post where you've said something wrong, and that's exactly what I've done, now it's my fault because I need to refresh the banner? Refresh the banner all you want, that's not going to change what he posted or what you said.

[Michael Henriksen]

I have been following the glowforge forum and see complaints about what they call proof grade material that cost more than what is out there and not cutting correctly. Acrylic that has a melted edge and people come on and say that is how acrylic looks when cut

"Proof grade" is a smart move on their part. It allows them to sell materials at a jacked up price and if a customer calls support because they are having problems, they can just say "Did you use proof grade?". All part of the BS that is Glowforge.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Their real skill is not in laser manufacturing but in viral marketing.

Today Mike wins the internet...this sums the entire thing up perfectly

[Dave Sheldrake]

Acrylic that has a melted edge and people come on and say that is how acrylic looks when cut

The core problem is J, the GF fans are listening to people who's entire worldly experience is a K40 that was upgraded to take a Light Object Controller or a *real* *industrial* machine like a Weike 3040.........

[Matt McCoy]

Judging from posts on various FB groups, a lot of the people who ordered a GF had not heard of laser cutter/engravers before and are not aware of what is already out there on the market. Since they have nothing to compare it to I'm sure they will be blisfully happy with their GF provideded they actually receive one. There are also a lot of people who seem perfectly happy with their K40 lasers. I rate those as a pile of poo and purely based on specs and current customer feedback, the GF doesn't impress me either. However I'm not in the target market anyway, so it's no skin off my nose GF do what they do.

What does amaze is just how much marketing bull you can get away with as a business. It's the over-hyped performance and dishonesty about shipping that really puts me off a product like the GF and is what prompts me to speak up about it. I also strongly dislike the fact that they are calling it a printer which people think of as a harmless domestic product. I don't think it is a suitable label for a laser that can cause serious harm to people and property if not treated with respect.

Regardless of Matt's claims to the opposite, the only thing I find groundbreaking about GF is that they managed to take that many orders for a product that didn't exist at the time. Two years down the line it's still not fully developed despite claims they have poured millions into it. Their real skill is not in laser manufacturing but in viral marketing.

Again, "groundbreaking" is your word, not mine. You are steering a false narrative. As one so offended by marketing hype and guffaws at words (printer!), you are probably giving yourself side eye right now and feel shame.

The GF isn't about specs or performance. The average SMC member is not its intended market. It is for creative individuals with limited or no CNC/laser experience that want to make cool, dimensional pieces 30 minutes after they take it out of the box. This does that with a trifecta of intuitive software (true print driver that works on any device with a browser), simple maintenance (no aligning mirrors or leveling the bed), and an approachable price point. It's also an American company, with American engineers, designing an American product, that rolls off an American assembly line, staffed with American workers. That matters to some (mostly 'Mericans).

Regardless, I agree with some of what you said (shipping) but a couple things:

Crowdfunding is normal. It's here and part of the world. There are those that it resonates with, and those that it doesn't. Kickstarter is a thing, and a large percentage of its members/backers are involved in tech, VCs, CEOs, and others pushing the envelope. Same with backers of the GF. They are not the great unwashed to just turn your nose up at.

I have been following the glowforge forum and see complaints about what they call proof grade material that cost more than what is out there and not cutting correctly. Acrylic that has a melted edge and people come on and say that is how acrylic looks when cut

Trotec sells material. Probably some real savings to be had there, but you're probably already a frequent shopper.

The PG materials are established products, from manufacturers that you and I already use. They work just fine in lasers everyday. What GF does is curate laser-safe products for those just starting out, pre-cut to size, add paper facing/backing, and a UV barcode so all you have to do is put the material in the laser and push one button. Unnecessary for some, useful for others. The materials do cost money, there is a premium for this convenience, as well as the ability to buy small quantities (a sheet or two).

What's any of that got to do with the actual post by Dan S, 20 months ago, saying they were shipping Day 14 orders out of Day 30, 20 months ago? That's not a BANNER, that's a POST. Read his POST that's UNDER the banner.

I don't need to compare anything, I'm comparing what YOU said versus what is in an UPDATE THREAD ON GF, posted by the CEO on Feb 25th, 2016.

Here's what I did.....

I took what YOU posted and then I took what HE posted and put them together. Nothing for me to be wrong about. It's YOUR words and HIS words together. You keep asking us to post where you've said something wrong, and that's exactly what I've done, now it's my fault because I need to refresh the banner? Refresh the banner all you want, that's not going to change what he posted or what you said.

Steve: The words you are reading have changed. They are not what was there 20 months ago. They are different. If you used a time machine (I would prefer the DeLorean model) and went back 20 months, the message would be what was originally posted, not what you are seeing now. Scroll down and you will see that Dan pinned it and made it into a banner last October, or something. When they update to the most recent schedule, it will appear everywhere there is a update post, linked to this banner. Go to Dan's current October update. I think he mentions they are on day 12 of production. That is no longer the case. I really hope that helps.

"Proof grade" is a smart move on their part. It allows them to sell materials at a jacked up price and if a customer calls support because they are having problems, they can just say "Did you use proof grade?". All part of the BS that is Glowforge.

See above.

The core problem is J, the GF fans are listening to people who's entire worldly experience is a K40 that was upgraded to take a Light Object Controller or a *real* *industrial* machine like a Weike 3040.........

Again, the software is not very intuitive, antiquated, and not a true print driver. There's a recent SMC thread about a gentleman developing new software, which has some interesting comments, including a good one From Kev on the frustration of having to use Chinese software. There are FB groups and YouTubes, and forums all trying to overcome the lack of good manuals, support, and software/dongle(!) wonkiness. So the evidence would indicate there was a niche market.

Plus, there are lots of folks that don't want to have to wire thousands of dollars overseas and hope they send a machine. That's a barrier for the uninitiated.

[Scott Shepherd]

Steve: The words you are reading have changed. They are not what was there 20 months ago. They are different. If you used a time machine (I would prefer the DeLorean model) and went back 20 months, the message would be what was originally posted, not what you are seeing now. Scroll down and you will see that Dan pinned it and made it into a banner last October, or something. When they update to the most recent schedule, it will appear everywhere there is a update post, linked to this banner. Go to Dan's current October update. I think he mentions they are on day 12 of production. That is no longer the case. I really hope that helps.

Matt, I don't know how to have a conversation when you ignore actual facts. This isn't a BANNER I'm reading, it's a post. A post made on Feb. 25 of 2016. You are the one who said it was on Day 14. I simply matched what you said to what the CEO actual said. I am a bit confused, because now you are saying the "new" update says they are on day 12 of production. How can they be 2 days behind where they were 20 months ago? 20 months ago, they were shipping machines ordered on Day 14. Now, 20 months later, they are shipping machines ordered on Day 12?

The facts aren't my opinion, they are actual WORDS FROM THE CEO. You seem to want to call me out for not understanding it all, yet I'm posting the ACTUAL WORDS FROM THE CEO.

Please see the attached screen shot. From Dan S. Feb 25, 2016.

Screen Shot 2017-10-11 at 11.10.45 AM.png

[Dave Sheldrake]

there are lots of folks that don't want to have to wire thousands of dollars overseas and hope they send a machine.

Compared to wiring even more money inside the US and still hoping they send a machine

[Matt McCoy]

Matt, I don't know how to have a conversation when you ignore actual facts. This isn't a BANNER I'm reading, it's a post. A post made on Feb. 25 of 2016. You are the one who said it was on Day 14. I simply matched what you said to what the CEO actual said. I am a bit confused, because now you are saying the "new" update says they are on day 12 of production. How can they be 2 days behind where they were 20 months ago? 20 months ago, they were shipping machines ordered on Day 14. Now, 20 months later, they are shipping machines ordered on Day 12?

The facts aren't my opinion, they are actual WORDS FROM THE CEO. You seem to want to call me out for not understanding it all, yet I'm posting the ACTUAL WORDS FROM THE CEO.

Please see the attached screen shot. From Dan S. Feb 25, 2016.

Screen Shot 2017-10-11 at 11.10.45 AM.png

Steve: You're digging yourself a hole here. You do not understand or I cannot explain it simply enough. Wait until the counter moves on the banner at the top of the forum and go back to your screenshots.

Compared to wiring even more money inside the US and still hoping they send a machine

You have protection, laws, and recourse in the U.S. when using a credit card, that you do not have wiring money from your checking account to a Chinese bank. GF is shipping machines and giving refunds to those that cannot wait.

[Jerome Stanek]

Matt how is your Glowforge working out for you. I will check back in after I run a couple jobs on my LG500 I need to cut a bunch of Plexi parts to fulfill an order that needs a polished edge.

[Michael Henriksen]

As one so offended by marketing hype and guffaws at words (printer!), you are probably giving yourself side eye right now and feel shame.

You lost me there - I don't know what "side eye" is or what I should feel shame about?

BTW, no need to wire money overseas - there are several US importers of Chinese lasers; FSL, Boss, Rabbit etc.

[Matt McCoy]

Matt how is your Glowforge working out for you. I will check back in after I run a couple jobs on my LG500 I need to cut a bunch of Plexi parts to fulfill an order that needs a polished edge.

Hey Jerome: Sounds good -- good luck with your project.

However, I have to give you a hard time here, because you're attempting to pull a gotcha. You're not reading this thread (even a page or so back) to get caught up. It's cool, folks are busy, and it's not very important, but if you were able follow along, you would be more informed. Skimming through, looking for reinforcement of an already-formed biased opinion, is like getting your news from memes.

I'm happy to debate, so no hard feelings.

Steve on the other hand...

Just kidding, I like him just fine.

[Gary Hair]

Compared to wiring even more money inside the US and still hoping they send a machine

I thought it was a strange statement that Matt made as well, I guess he didn’t see the irony. Maybe he means it’s better to lose money to a US based company than a foreign based one?