Glowforge release

[Lee DeRaud]

"cooling? We built in an overheating shutoff but I guess that cooling might have been a better idea..."

Two words: "toaster oven".

[Steven Taitinger]

I don't understand why there is any speculation in this thread at this point. They have the capabilities of their machines better documented technically and via projects from beta users than my rayfine machine has. All I can say is I probably still would have chosen mine even if I could afford the cost and wait time but I sure am jealous of the results they are getting + my 7050 doesn't fit in my house so now I have to move! A bit smaller wouldn't have hurt too much. The engraving quality of the glowforge looks to meet or surpass trotecs machines from what I can tell. And with the cloud based software it will only get better. I too absolutely hate internet apps though since I'm forced to use them all day at work. For that reason I would only ever have a glowforge as a second machine.

[Bert Kemp]

Slams forehead with fist.... I knew we forgot something?

picture did not come thru LOL oh well

[Bert Kemp]

Bill said they read this forum? But they haven't learned anything yet

[Bert Kemp]

Seriously the engraving is better then Trotec and a trotec would do that engraving in what 9 seconds LOL

I don't understand why there is any speculation in this thread at this point. They have the capabilities of their machines better documented technically and via projects from beta users than my rayfine machine has. All I can say is I probably still would have chosen mine if I could afford the cost and wait time but I sure am jealous of the results they are getting + my 7050 doesn't fit in my house so now I have to move! A bit smaller wouldn't have hurt too much. The engraving quality of the glowforge looks to meet or surpass trotecs machines from what I can tell. And with the cloud based software it will only get better. I too absolutely hate internet apps though since I'm forced to use them all day at work. For that reason I would only ever have a glowforge as a second machine.

[Gary Hair]

The engraving quality of the glowforge looks to meet or surpass trotecs machines from what I can tell.

If you truly believe that then this is definitely the machine for you...

[Andrew Holloway]

The engraving quality of the glowforge looks to meet or surpass trotecs machines from what I can tell.

This is an extraordinary claim! No cheap glass tube can come close to any RF tube, not just because they are cheaper, it's physics. I remember proudly taking a high detail engraving sample I did on my FSL into the Trotec showroom a few years ago. I thought Trotec would be better, but golly, I was not expecting the kind of difference I saw!
It's easy to look at photos Glowforge put out and think it's great, but wait until you get a real sample in your hand from Glowforge and Trotec. Trotecs will be orders of magnitude better quality, I'll bet my brand new Speedy 360 on that!

[Scott Shepherd]

The engraving quality of the glowforge looks to meet or surpass trotecs machines from what I can tell.

You'd be wrong on that on every single level. Like comparing a Hyundai to a Ferrari on every level. If that's your impression of a Trotec (or any western made machine), your impressions are incorrect.

[Bert Kemp]

I know we have a few guys here that invested in a glowforge. I can't but wonder why you would do such a thing. You all seem to have lasers all ready and know what they can do and at what speeds they work at and they all have cooling and exhaust. So I'm wondering what would possess you to wait 2 years for a machine that takes 9 mins to run a very small raster job , has little or no cooling, and no extraction system, or pay a lot more then a conventional laser to get minimal air extraction and cooling. Can anyone explain this to me?

[Steven Taitinger]

I find it interesting that when I mentioned one specific measure my statement was then applied to the whole machine. If I am wrong about the engraving quality will someone please at least mention some facts or even documented subjective evidence to show otherwise? Did we lose our critical thinking all of a sudden? Maybe I am a bit late in this conversation for where the facts where mentioned...

The glowforge lists 1355 dpi with a .006 in min spot size (roughly the same as a 2in focal length lens). Considering that Trotec recommends 500 DPI for engraving photos, why does it stand to reason that the glowforge can't get a higher quality engrave than what Trotec users are getting? I am also thoroughly impressed with Trotec and specifically the HPDFO lens from ULS (.001in spot size at 2in focal length). I am sure their hardware is capable of higher quality engraves but whether their software is making full use of that is a separate question. Just because software allows settings to be tweaked in a million different ways to get the best results also doesn't make it as accessible to some people as software that makes the right adjustments for you most of the time.

Note that I didn't say speed or best overall. Just engraving quality. Having the variable focal length could also allow one to engrave with a smaller spot size and cut with straighter sides without having to switch lenses in my mind. As we know, engraving quality is just as much about the software as the hardware. Just look at the K40 with custom software http://www.instructables.com/id/True...Laser-Cutter-/. Same tube but night and day difference in range of grey scale.

My statement would be like comparing the ergonomics of a Hyundai seat with a Ferrari seat. They are designed for different purposes and although the Ferrari might be the higher quality car, if you are really skinny and short, maybe the Hyundai would have a more ergonomic seat. That doesn't mean I think the Ferrari is overpriced or inferior to the Hyundai.

Although if anyone has a multiplayer boxing game online that could make this discussion more enjoyable lol.

By the way I just had a real sample of a Trotec engraving in my hand yesterday at lunch. One of our materials guys was at a trade show yesterday. I guess I must be blind and unintelligent to make such blasphemous claims! One fact is that 1000's of these Glowforges have been sold and many more will be sold. The product has found a niche not just among uneducated inexperienced people but even among some laser professionals. They haven't sold all their old machines I doubt, but instead have found specific uses that the glowforge is a better fit for. The question isn't if that niche exists but only what are its limits. If we as a community don't learn to understand how to recognize that niche than for many people online looking to get into laser cutting, we will be discredited due to either our arrogance or ignorance. For the purposes of this community that may not matter but I think we would be better off to welcome them, their crazy ideas of what you can do with a laser and their questions. There might come a day soon when there are more glowforges in north america than chinese lasers. I know that I could still just browse the glowforge forum to see what they are up to but this community likely has a different skillset than most glowforge users. I look forwards to hearing their questions and reading intelligent answers.

My guess is that niche is for people that appreciate intuitive software and technical support more than raw machine capabilities but can't pay the price for a top of the line machine or can't fit one in their home.

[Gary Hair]

I'm not even sure where to begin with pointing out the inaccuracies in your post, so I won't do anything more than to say that you are misinformed and misinterpreting what information you have been provided. If you compare ANY metal tube laser to ANY glass tube laser, not just comparing Trotec to Glowforge, the difference in quality, speed, features, etc., will be night and day.

P.S. your statement about dpi is akin to saying that since you saw that Ferarri next to a 35MPH speed limit sign and a VW Bug next to a 55MPH sign that the VW is clearly a faster machine.

I find it interesting that when I mentioned one specific measure my statement was then applied to the whole machine. If I am wrong about the engraving quality will someone please at least mention some facts or even documented subjective evidence to show otherwise? Did we lose our critical thinking all of a sudden? Maybe I am a bit late in this conversation for where the facts where mentioned...

The glowforge lists 1355 dpi with a .006 in min spot size (roughly the same as a 2in focal length lens). Considering that Trotec recommends 500 DPI for engraving photos, why does it stand to reason that the glowforge can't get a higher quality engrave than what Trotec users are getting? I am also thoroughly impressed with Trotec and specifically the HPDFO lens from ULS. I am sure their hardware is capable of higher quality engraves but whether their software is making full use of that is a separate question.

Note that I didn't say speed or best overall. Just engraving quality. Having the variable focal length could also allow one to engrave with a smaller spot size and cut with straighter sides without having to switch lenses in my mind. As we know, engraving quality is just as much about the software as the hardware. Just look at the K40 with custom software http://www.instructables.com/id/True...Laser-Cutter-/. Same tube but night and day difference in range of grey scale.

My statement would be like comparing the ergonomics of a Hyundai seat with a Ferrari seat. They are designed for different purposes and although the Ferrari might be the higher quality car, if you are really skinny and short, maybe the Hyundai would have a more ergonomic seat. That doesn't mean I think the Ferrari is overpriced or inferior to the Hyundai.

Although if anyone has a multiplayer boxing game online that could make this discussion more enjoyable lol.

By the way I just had a real sample of a Trotec engraving in my hand yesterday at lunch. One of our materials guys was at a trade show yesterday. I guess I must be blind and unintelligent to make such blasphemous claims!

[Bill George]

There might come a day soon when there are more glowforges in north america than chinese lasers. I know that I could still just browse the glowforge forum to see what they are up to but this community likely has a different skillset than most glowforge users. I look forwards to hearing their questions and reading intelligent answers.

So everyone one here regardless of the years of experience will someday wish they had a Glow Forge? The GF is being marketed as a hobby machine that could be used as a professional if you pay the extra bucks. I think if you read back the 54 pages or so here you will find lots of intelligent conversation. Who I feel sorry for is like the veteran over on the MakerGear forum who had ideas for making things to sell with the GF. I tried to do a little education but he had taken the GF sales pitch to heart and could not be swayed.

[Steven Taitinger]

Wouldn't it be more like Ferrari recommending that most races are won going 100 km/hr on average as opposed to maxing the machine out and crashing in the corners? The 500 DPI wasn't a min value but a recommended value in Trotec's engraving pdf. I understand it is capable of more than that but it mentioned that more than that (unless on metal) often leads to over burning. If two machines are both capable of the same function (DPI/spot size) at the usable range (500 DPI) for that material (engraving wood) wouldn't it be the software that sets them apart? As far as I understand spot size is spot size whether it comes from a burning stick, an inkjet printer or a laser tube. I know this is an over simplified way of looking at this but I am actually curious what are the specific factors that make for a better engrave. Maybe I could apply some of the knowledge to my machine even. As far as I understand engraving quality only has the following key factors: spot size, positioning accuracy and precision, number of power levels (in the relevant range) of the hardware available through the software and the graphics itself. Speed also has many separate and overlapping factors but that isn't what I am talking about. Do metal tubes unfailing beat glass tubes on all of those factors? The real time adjustable focus is certainly relevant which I don't believe most of the metal tube machines have. Trotec doesn't seem to like documenting their actual hardware specs online which makes it hard to compare. I am sure they do that because (like many salesman) they say you have to experience it to believe it.

[Steven Taitinger]

I actually doubt that many people on this forum will wish they had a glowforge. I would expect the more experienced people would be even less interested in learning new software and getting a smaller machine. But its popularity among many people is undeniable.

[Scott Anders]

The engraving quality of the glowforge looks to meet or surpass trotecs machines from what I can tell.

Damn, why wasn't the glowforge around 12 years ago, I wouldn't have wasted all this money on these trotecs and other metal tube lasers over the years. And the most painful aspect is that the glowforge are a tenth of the price or better.

Steven, let me explain why your glowforge does better quality engraving than a trotec sample taken from a trade show. Trotec, epilog, uls etc. are sold for their throughput. With the right job one of these machines can make enough money to buy a glowforge every couple of days (waiting on delivery might be an issue though lol) They are capable of extremely fine detail but so are most lasers (glass tube machines included). The sample probably came from an 80 watt machine that would be at the trade show to sell the machine for its speed capabilities not for fine detail (though it is capable of it). So because it's an 80 watt it is already at a disadvantage over the 25 watt glass tube glowforge due to larger steps in fine detail control of the power. Also the trotec probably had a lens in that was suitable for the application at the time.

You mention adjustable focus on the glowforge, yes trotec has this capability and can be programmed to automatically adjust focus on the fly for separate passes quite easily.

Thanks for the laugh though. I've been following this thread for a while and have thoroughly enjoyed the last few days comments.

Hey if any of you trotec owners are thinking of selling up and replacing with glowforge please send your machines down under, I'll make sure they're loved.