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Anyone who pays that kind of money for the privilege of applying to be a customer (according to their own words) of a product that has never been proven to work in an independent demonstration is using extraordinarily poor judgement in my opinion.
Originally Posted by Dave Sheldrake
Member
Jason,
Why don't you put in your signature your relation to GF.
Trotec Speedy 300 - 60w, with Quatro CSA-626 fume extraction
Xenetech 1625 x2,
New Hermes TX pantograph, CG4 cutter grinder
Brady Globalmark2 label printer,
Assortment of custom tooling , shears & punches, heat bender.
Software: Xenetech XOT, Corel X3, Bartender label software
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I always wonder how people get to the point where they think that anyone who disagrees with them is ignorant, delusional, angry, or attacking them.
Doesn't it get tiring trying to make it through the day in continuous "fight-or-flight" mode?
Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
"Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.
Member
Sorry Doug. In my opinion you're just picking nits again and just like the earlier negative prognostications, will probably fade away. The GF will be approximately as loud as any comparable laser in any space made of any material. I doubt it would even be perceptible. Human hearing isn't that good. No need to go hypothetical or get lost in the weeds to redefine what a normal conversation is, as there are real-world examples and it's much ado about nothing. It certainly has the perception of grasping at straws.
I understand that some here will short circuit at the very mention of the laser that shall-not-be-named, and like a previous poster, I don't get the vitriol. If I were a backer, I would be disappointed by the 6 month delay and if I were a negative Nancy, I would be skeptical that GF will be able to produce 100% of what they have envisioned. Not because Dan and his team are evil, or any of the other insults that have been cast their way, but because it is pretty hard.
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I absolutely agree with the first sentence. After that...exaggerating much?
I'm fairly old and have spent an embarrassingly large chunk of my life at rock concerts and shooting ranges, but my hearing is still good enough to hear the fan on this laptop and the refrigerator cycling on the other side of the room. The idea that a laser...any laser...would not be perceptible is truly at odds with any objective reality.
Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
"Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.
Member
I wasn't very clear. I should have written that any differences between comparable lasers would probably not be perceptible. I believe that a sound must be twice as loud to make a 3dB increase and 10 times as loud for human hearing to perceive it as twice as loud.
It's great you still enjoy good hearing. I cringe when I see folks using power tools and machines without hearing protection.
Contributor
Ah, misread that, I did.
There are certainly perceptible differences between lasers' noise levels, but for a given general size/construction, you'd probably have to do A/B tests with both of them in the same room at the same time to notice it. Also, case material and construction will make a difference, but again, if you only hear one at a time, it comes down to "quiet", "loud", or something in between. And so we're back to "acceptable loudness for home use" and "buyer expectations"...those factors may start to matter (a lot) if the buyer in question has never heard a laser running except in a Youtube video or at a noisy craft show. YMMV, leave it at that.
Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
"Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.
Member
You think this is funny, there is a new machine called an "Allforge" that allows you to melt and cast Bismuth / Tin / and many other metals with a melting point below 650C in the kitchen too.
No...I'm not joking...I'm $275,000 in 3 days not joking
You did what !
Contributor
Heh. I remember casting lead soldiers with my dad in the den 55 years ago, scaring the life out of my mom in the process. The whole kit was something under $10, but the UI kind of sucked.
I could get a bit more excited about it if it went up to 1000C to do brass/bronze and silver. Not in the kitchen though: I put way too much work into those floors and countertops.
Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
"Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.
Member
That looks like a nice machine. A few things about it I don't like. First, I can't find anywhere where they say when it will ship. Second, it is very dishonest to say that injection molding machines start at $50k. Lastly, what the heck is it with people wanting to control machines that sit right in front of them with a damn smart phone? It's got a 10" LCD built into it for frack's sake!
You can get a brand new Morgan press for $20k and used ones for under $5k. And that's for something that can do serious work (up to 3 shots/minute) but takes the same amount of counter space as a drill press.
Morgan Press.jpg
Shenhui 1440x850, 130 Watt Reci Z6
Gerber Sabre 408
Member
Now you guys will be accused of having a meltdown.
Member
Okay, I did find it, by accident. It is in the middle of their web page. Every time I scroll down, or up, it reloads the page and jumps to either the top or bottom. They say they expect to ship all units in Nov/Dec. Sounds a tad optimistic to me...
Shenhui 1440x850, 130 Watt Reci Z6
Gerber Sabre 408
Member
Here's another injection molder, hand operated for $1,500.
http://techkits.com/products/model-150a/
Okay, I'll stop now...
Shenhui 1440x850, 130 Watt Reci Z6
Gerber Sabre 408
Dalton,
I have a bismuth blend metal here that I played with trying to do a poured inlay in some wood. Not very successful, but interesting enough that I will try it again someday. Very low melting temp. Very low. In fact, low enough that hobbiests would melt it in boiling water, pour the molten metal into tiny copper tubes and then let it cool. The now solid nature of the tube now allowed the hobbiest to bend the tube as they wanted without risk of it crimping like it might have if they tried to bend it while it was hollow. Then they would melt the metal with boiling water again and pour it out of the tube. Genius!! So I got an evil idea. I broke a cheap metal spoon where the handle met the bowl. I "soldered" it back together with this metal and buffed it up. If you werent paying much attention it looked like a solid spoon. When someone asked me for coffee and I warned them that I made it pretty strong and they said "the stronger the better" I would pour their VERY hot coffee into the cup, watch them put in the spoon to add some milk or sugar, and then confirm that it was indeed strong coffee as they pulled the spoon out only to have the bowl of the spoon melted off. If your bismuth blend has a melting point that low it might be worth a try just to make a bud's jaw drop. I can't claim credit for this prank by the way. I someone else write it up in some discussions of the alloy.
Apologies for the thread jack everyone! Please continue with your GF discussion. <grin>
Last edited by David Somers; 05-06-2016 at 12:31 AM.
900x600 80watt EFR Tube laser from Liaocheng Ray Fine Tech LTD. Also a 900x600 2.5kw spindle CNC from Ray Fine. And my main tool, a well used and loved Jet 1642 Woodlathe with an outboard toolrest that helps me work from 36 inch diameters down to reallllllly tiny stuff.
Member
Stereolithography, or SLA typically is a light emitting process, not a direct, raw laser process. Selective Laser Sintering, SLS uses lasers to cure the material. SLA on the low end use elements similar (or in some cases identical) to a DLP projector. The Form1 and Form2 use a laser but the application is more along the lines of a projector and not a raw beam as in an engraver/cutter. The element projects an image of the current layer being cured, in the case of a Form a laser. The curing of the material is pretty much instantaneous. It looks like Carbon 3D has bested Form Labs with an LED based light source and an oxygen permeable window that allows for greater resolution and faster prints.
A 10 dB spl difference is generally perceived as being twice as loud. A 3 dB spl difference is about what most people could discern as a volume change. What you may be thinking is power output with relation to a 3 dB change where an increase of 3 db will require twice the power. A decibel isn't an absolute measurement, it's a ratio of power and depending on the context it could mean different things.
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