Glowforge release

[Scott Shepherd]

Steve: You're digging yourself a hole here. You do not understand or I cannot explain it simply enough. Wait until the counter moves on the banner at the top of the forum and go back to your screenshots.

Matt, I'm 100% convinced you don't actually read anything I say. The screenshot I posted was NOT of a banner ad that updates. It was from their FORUM. It's an ACTUAL POST FROM THEIR FORUM NOT A BANNER AD THAT GETS UPDATED WHEN YOU REFRESH YOUR BROWSER. I can go to that same page (WHICH I LINKED TO) 1000 times, clear my cache, buy a new computer, go from a phone and that FORUM POST isn't going to change.

Seriously, I don't mind a conversation, but if you just read what you want out of things and then insist they are the truth, then it's pointless to try and have a conversation. CLICK THE LINK AND READ THE ACTUAL POST. NOT THE BANNER AD, THE POST. THE POST MADE BY DAN S. on FEB 25, 2016.

[Matt McCoy]

You lost me there - I don't know what "side eye" is or what I should feel shame about?

Google that when you're finally able to connect to the internet.

BTW, no need to wire money overseas - there are several US importers of Chinese lasers; FSL, Boss, Rabbit etc.

All companies that sell fine products, in my opinion, so I'm happy you mention them. Here's where I lower the boom on you again:

1) The lowest priced machine from Rabbit (I'm a customer) is $4,800 + shipping and Boss is $6K + shipping (for comparable bed size, I believe), and you're still using crappy 2-step process, dongle, USB, Chinese software. Rabbit doesn't accept credit card.

2) FSL (I'm a customer) has the comparable Muse, with WYSIWYG true print driver software and a stable network connection that allows one to print directly from almost any program and file format in one step, like western machines.

3) The GF Basic campaign price was $2K + shipping.

[Michael Henriksen]

Matt, why the need to be so condescending?

[Matt McCoy]

Matt, I don't know how to have a conversation when you ignore actual facts. This isn't a BANNER I'm reading, it's a post. A post made on Feb. 25 of 2016. You are the one who said it was on Day 14. I simply matched what you said to what the CEO actual said. I am a bit confused, because now you are saying the "new" update says they are on day 12 of production. How can they be 2 days behind where they were 20 months ago? 20 months ago, they were shipping machines ordered on Day 14. Now, 20 months later, they are shipping machines ordered on Day 12?

The facts aren't my opinion, they are actual WORDS FROM THE CEO. You seem to want to call me out for not understanding it all, yet I'm posting the ACTUAL WORDS FROM THE CEO.

Please see the attached screen shot. From Dan S. Feb 25, 2016.

Attachment 369421

Matt, I'm 100% convinced you don't actually read anything I say. The screenshot I posted was NOT of a banner ad that updates. It was from their FORUM. It's an ACTUAL POST FROM THEIR FORUM NOT A BANNER AD THAT GETS UPDATED WHEN YOU REFRESH YOUR BROWSER. I can go to that same page (WHICH I LINKED TO) 1000 times, clear my cache, buy a new computer, go from a phone and that FORUM POST isn't going to change.

Seriously, I don't mind a conversation, but if you just read what you want out of things and then insist they are the truth, then it's pointless to try and have a conversation. CLICK THE LINK AND READ THE ACTUAL POST. NOT THE BANNER AD, THE POST. THE POST MADE BY DAN S. on FEB 25, 2016.

Here's a fun trick. Click the link in the post from 2016 that says "this update". Spoiler alert: It will take you into the future, to the latest October update from 7 days ago that has the exact same wording as the banner on the top of the forum. They must be geniuses to have had the foresight to embed code in 2016 that would take you to an announcement that hadn't even been written yet and is the exact wording as the announcement banner.

Here's the link to the old post, if anyone wants to give it a whirl:

https://community.glowforge.com/t/th...-shipping/1551

[Matt McCoy]

Matt, why the need to be so condescending?

Please take it as tongue-in-cheek and light sarcasm. Sorry if it doesn't always come across that way.

[Nigel P. Jones]

Scott, that post is edited and updated on a regular basis to reflect the current "shipping" status. If you float over the pencil icon next to the original post date you can see when it was last edited. Currently that's October 5, 2017.

glowforge-post.png

When the post was originally created in February 2016 it obviously didn't say anything about them shipping anything at that time, since they didn't actually begin shipping any non-beta units until just a couple months ago.

[John Lifer]

Rabbit's lowest cost machine is $4800, and with bed larger and can laser bigger parts. The cost is close to the "Pro GF" machine if it ever shows up. I think they offered it for about $4k with the 'filter system' that hasn't seen the light of day yet.
And Guess what? you can get that Rabbit machine shipped REALLY soon! Still can't get a fully equipped WORKING Pro with filter system! I'll take the two step process over the scan and hope it fits and maybe it will be finished by next week.
There is ONE good thing that it accomplished and that is put a few folks to work for a couple of years. But at the expense of a LOT of folk's money.

[Matt McCoy]

Rabbit's lowest cost machine is $4800, and with bed larger and can laser bigger parts. The cost is close to the "Pro GF" machine if it ever shows up. I think they offered it for about $4k with the 'filter system' that hasn't seen the light of day yet.
And Guess what? you can get that Rabbit machine shipped REALLY soon! Still can't get a fully equipped WORKING Pro with filter system! I'll take the two step process over the scan and hope it fits and maybe it will be finished by next week.
Matt, just quit defending a cheap, at best Semi-hobby machine. It is kind of pathetic. It was supposed to be the next great thing and it has been a real dud. There is ONE good thing that it accomplished and that is put a few folks to work for a couple of years. But at the expense of a LOT of folk's money.

John, thanks for pointing that out. That machine has no product page that I can find and only a mention at the bottom of the home page, so I missed it. Still $4,800 + shipping freight vs. the Basic for $2K + UPS/FedEx. An additional $2,800+ is a barrier for some, especially those that just want something to goof around with. BTW, I really like Rabbit and happy to see that they've added this machine.

You mention preferring "the 2-step process over the scan". What do you mean by that?

*I forgot to add that Rabbit doesn't list CC as an accepted payment on their website. I'll edit my post.

[Matt McCoy]

I thought it was a strange statement that Matt made as well, I guess he didn’t see the irony. Maybe he means it’s better to lose money to a US based company than a foreign based one?

Sorry Gary - I missed this.

"You have protection, laws, and recourse in the U.S. when using a credit card, that you do not have wiring money from your checking account to a Chinese bank. GF is shipping machines and giving refunds to those that cannot wait."

A U.S. customer would have no trouble getting money back from a GF purchase via CC. There is no such protection when wiring money directly into a Chinese company's bank account in another country. No?

[Bill George]

In case some of you haven't caught on yet, Matt is just having fun arguring his point. He really has no interst in GF as something he would actually purchase, but loves to make a point. I just wish those poor folks who think someday they could really have a working machine would find this discussion and do some reading. Hello Google?

[Rich Harman]

I have been following the glowforge forum and see complaints about what they call proof grade material that cost more than what is out there and not cutting correctly. Acrylic that has a melted edge and people come on and say that is how acrylic looks when cut

Someone there is suggesting to put newspaper under the material to help with the problem of flashback - no one has pointed out the hazard of such an idea.

[Rich Harman]

... and you're still using crappy 2-step process, dongle, USB, Chinese software... ...with WYSIWYG true print driver software and a stable network connection that allows one to print directly from almost any program and file format in one step, like western machines.

I don't understand the obsession with print drivers. Are they truly "one step"? I have not seen all the western machines in action but what I have seen is that when you hit "print" it simply opens a new window that looks much like the "crappy" Chinese laser programs, where you then assign power levels speeds etc., and then you run the file from there.

Why would one need to run the laser from "almost any program"?

I don't use a dongle, the USB connection is not unstable and I doubt that a WYSIWYG print driver would actually save me any time.

[Dave Sheldrake]

There is no such protection when wiring money directly into a Chinese company's bank account in another country. No?

Those protections have time limits on them in the US much the same as they do here, in the UK we have section 75 protection that can on paper at least extend to 6 years, in the US your similar laws give you 60 days after paying a bill to send a written complaint to the card provider.

[Lee DeRaud]

I don't understand the obsession with print drivers. Are they truly "one step"? I have not seen all the western machines in action but what I have seen is that when you hit "print" it simply opens a new window that looks much like the "crappy" Chinese laser programs, where you then assign power levels speeds etc., and then you run the file from there.

Why would one need to run the laser from "almost any program"?

I read that as "almost any graphics/CAD program", and one would certainly hope so. If you need to save a job in an intermediate format and run one or more separate programs to convert it to something the laser can swallow, that's not "one step". It was that kind of kabuki dance that drove me crazy about my CNC router: output to DXF, import into VCarve, output G-code, bring the G-code in Mach3, then finally send to the device. I've gotten the impression that something similar is required for some Chinese lasers...not sure, don't really care.

On my ULS, the driver I select in Corel is laser-specific, I can set all the power/speed stuff there, then "print" it. Yes, there's an optional additional window where I can select that job or a previous job, or I can just hit the 'start' button on the laser. It's certainly no worse than printing labels or cardstock through the manual-feed slot on my laser printer.

[Matt McCoy]

I don't understand the obsession with print drivers. Are they truly "one step"? I have not seen all the western machines in action but what I have seen is that when you hit "print" it simply opens a new window that looks much like the "crappy" Chinese laser programs, where you then assign power levels speeds etc., and then you run the file from there.

Why would one need to run the laser from "almost any program"?

I don't use a dongle, the USB connection is not unstable and I doubt that a WYSIWYG print driver would actually save me any time.

A print driver allows a user to "print" almost any file format, within almost any program directly (.AI, .CDR, .PDF, .EPS, .SVG, .DOC, .XLS, etc.). It doesn't necessarily need to be CAD software. Hit the print button from your software and the laser will begin, like a paper printer. No need to convert or transfer files, set-up, etc. A user can just work directly from whatever software they are most familiar or efficient with.

USB connections will work for most, but not stable for all. Can be susceptible to RF interference. A network connection is especially handy if a shop has more than one workstation that sends jobs to the laser.

Those protections have time limits on them in the US much the same as they do here, in the UK we have section 75 protection that can on paper at least extend to 6 years, in the US your similar laws give you 60 days after paying a bill to send a written complaint to the card provider.

You posited that sending money via a credit card offered no more protection than wiring money to a foreign bank in a sovereign nation. No reasonable person would agree with that, in my opinion.

The info above that you now offer (Section 75) only applies to orders, with at least partial payment by credit card and a U.S. cardholder cannot initiate a chargeback, if they do not use the card for payment. Wiring money directly into a bank account is the same as giving someone cash on the street. Once they have it, there is little to no recourse to get it back. One can cancel payment within 30 minutes, but only under certain circumstances, like the transaction not going through.

I read that as "almost any graphics/CAD program", and one would certainly hope so. If you need to save a job in an intermediate format and run one or more separate programs to convert it to something the laser can swallow, that's not "one step". It was that kind of kabuki dance that drove me crazy about my CNC router: output to DXF, import into VCarve, output G-code, bring the G-code in Mach3, then finally send to the device. I've gotten the impression that something similar is required for some Chinese lasers...not sure, don't really care.

On my ULS, the driver I select in Corel is laser-specific, I can set all the power/speed stuff there, then "print" it. Yes, there's an optional additional window where I can select that job or a previous job, or I can just hit the 'start' button on the laser. It's certainly no worse than printing labels or cardstock through the manual-feed slot on my laser printer.

Exactly.