How close is too close - dog holes to the edge

[Dale Murray]

I am finally sitting down to completely design, redesign, design-again, then scrap that design to do another design of my workbench.

Basics:
I have a 90"x30"x2.25" maple top (continuous boards, flat and stable)
The finished will be about 8' +/-2" and 32-1/2" deep when I'm done (the maple top will be cut down to 84")
I already have a LV twin screw vise for the end
Will be purchasing a Benchcrafted classic solo for the leg vise.
I will be adding a 6" skirt on all sides of the top.

I have 8/4 maple to use for my skirts that will be mated a tongue I create on the sides of the top.
The skirts will have a finished thickness of 1-5/8" to 1-3/4" (I have not dimensioned these yet, still designing).

My desire it to cut slots (3/4" deep) for square dogs in the skirt before attaching to the top thus leaving me with 7/8" to 1" of material between the dog mortise and front edge. Will that be enough material without compromising strength? (dogs will be spaced 6-8" apart)

This is going to be my first and most likely last bench I ever build and quite substantial.

[David Eisenhauer]

Pretty d@#^n close. I don't believe that I have seen dog holes any closer than 2" to 2-1/2" from the edge of a bench, but I am no expert on anything, never mind benches. Strength wise, I don't know, I guessssss it shooooooould be OK, but may not be best alignment for clamping down longer boards along the edge for planning, etc. I am assuming that the twin screw vise can be used with a top finger on the moving chop to push against a board that is, in turn, lodged against a dog. What distance from the edge (not the end) of the bench will the twin screw vise finger be located at? Typically, one likes to center the vise action on boards clamped along the edge and 7/8" to 1" would work better on fairly narrow boards. Can you cut the dog holes in the existing top and then add on the skirt to get a little more clearance?

[James Pallas]

With 6 to 8 between dog holes and square dogs I would think you would more likely break the vice jaw unless it was a great hunk of wood.
Jim

[Reinis Kanders]

Mine are less than inch from the edge. Closer the better. I can do rabettd, grooves, etc. for narrow pieces without a sticking board.

[David Eisenhauer]

Reinis I believe you, but a question so I can learn. How does it work for holding - say 6" wide boards along the edge? Do your vice finger and dog holes line up?

[ken hatch]

I am finally sitting down to completely design, redesign, design-again, then scrap that design to do another design of my workbench.

Basics:
I have a 90"x30"x2.25" maple top (continuous boards, flat and stable)
The finished will be about 8' +/-2" and 32-1/2" deep when I'm done (the maple top will be cut down to 84")
I already have a LV twin screw vise for the end
Will be purchasing a Benchcrafted classic solo for the leg vise.
I will be adding a 6" skirt on all sides of the top.

I have 8/4 maple to use for my skirts that will be mated a tongue I create on the sides of the top.
The skirts will have a finished thickness of 1-5/8" to 1-3/4" (I have not dimensioned these yet, still designing).

My desire it to cut slots (3/4" deep) for square dogs in the skirt before attaching to the top thus leaving me with 7/8" to 1" of material between the dog mortise and front edge. Will that be enough material without compromising strength? (dogs will be spaced 6-8" apart)

This is going to be my first and most likely last bench I ever build and quite substantial.

Dale,

Don't bet on it .

Don't over think your first bench. It is almost a guarantee that what you think you want in a bench will not work for you and you will need to build a second or even a third bench to get to a happy spot. Build it simple, build it quick, build it heavy, strong, and cheap. Then go to work making furniture, a year later build another fixing the things that drive you bonkers on the first bench. Repeat until you have one that works for you. If at that point you want it "pretty" go for it.

ken

[ken hatch]

Dale,

Just another thought to add....Too many vises just get in the way. Take a look at Mike Siemsen's YouTube video on working on a bench without a vise.

ken

[Dale Murray]

Can you cut the dog holes in the existing top and then add on the skirt to get a little more clearance?

The reason I want the dogs in the skirt is support. If I cut the dogs in the existing top them apply the skirt I would only have 2-1/4" of support against the dogs whereas in the skirt it will support the full length.

[Dale Murray]

With 6 to 8 between dog holes and square dogs I would think you would more likely break the vice jaw unless it was a great hunk of wood.
Jim

The dogs would be on the front and rear skirts spaced 6-8" one from the next, not every six inches across the bench. I would install two dogs on the twin screw vise to line up with them.

[Dale Murray]

Dale,
Just another thought to add....Too many vises just get in the way. Take a look at Mike Siemsen's YouTube video on working on a bench without a vise.
ken

My garage bench does not have a vise and it has been my only bench for a year now.
The upside, it is attached to a cement wall so I have an excellent plane stop when I need one.
The downside, I am getting tired of creative clamping solutions; two hand screws clamped flat on the bench holding a board on edge to be planed.

This will be my indoor bench for hand tool goodness and placed along a wall with 7 feet southern facing windows.

[Dale Murray]

Dale,

Don't bet on it .

ken

At 45yrs with a full time job, I dont know how many benches I are in the future, or the money to build them. I am building it in such a way that I can cut two inches off the overall height fairly easily.

I'm 6'2". I will build it to be 35" tall but can be cut down to 33" if need be.

[Reinis Kanders]

I have a tail vise and holes in it are aligned with the ones in the bench. Stuff does not move in the tail vise, but wider stuff I usually plane against a stop which I have near the face vise. I am really happy with that that Veritas tail vise BTW, it gets much more use than the twin screw vise I used previously as an end vise.

Here is the picture.

20151120_154204.jpg

Reinis I believe you, but a question so I can learn. How does it work for holding - say 6" wide boards along the edge? Do your vice finger and dog holes line up?

[ken hatch]

At 45yrs with a full time job, I dont know how many benches I are in the future, or the money to build them. I am building it in such a way that I can cut two inches off the overall height fairly easily.

I'm 6'2". I will build it to be 35" tall but can be cut down to 33" if need be.

Dale,

I'm 73 yrs old also with a full time job and I'm still building benches, in fact I have a small traveling bench in the planning stage as I type. BTW, with almost every build the new bench has been simpler than the last. The last bench which is as close to perfect for my work flow as a bench can get is what I call a cross channel bench, French bones and English skin.

What I've tried to post is there are fashions in work benches, often what is in fashion may not be the best for you but the only way to find out is to work on a bench. I know chicken and egg.

Good luck but most of all have fun,

ken

[Dale Murray]

Dale,
I'm 73 yrs old also with a full time job and I'm still building benches, in fact I have a small traveling bench in the planning stage as I type. BTW, with almost every build the new bench has been simpler than the last. The last bench which is as close to perfect for my work flow as a bench can get is what I call a cross channel bench, French bones and English skin.

What I've tried to post is there are fashions in work benches, often what is in fashion may not be the best for you but the only way to find out is to work on a bench. I know chicken and egg.

Good luck but most of all have fun,

ken

In the grand scheme of things 45 is still a baby. I have loved woodworking my whole life ((using dads shop) but its only been the past few years I have been solvent enough to pursue the hobby and three years that I've owned a house. With that said, I hope not to spend my time in the future building one new bench after the other. I am sure I will find a shortcoming here and there but learn to live with them.

My father has a stand he built for his belt sander in the 70's. It was to be a temp stand until he could build a better one. It is now 40 years down the road and that stand it still under the sander.

I totally agree, benches seem to have a flavor of the week. Some of the most influential woodworkers in the world use(d) what are effectively industrial work tables and created genius results. Its not the tools or bench, its the person.

I will fully admit this is a major passion project and one I've waited 37 years to pursue.

I remember seeing my very first shaker workbench in Fine Woodworking in the late 70's.
It was a B&W photo.
It was long and sleek.
It was beautiful.
Since that day I have wanted to build one and promised myself I would build one. Many sleepless night and daydreams have been wrapped up in this thing.

I am not trying to duplicate anything I've seen before and clearly not a purest - using a twin screw vise - but I am building this to fit my space, and maximize internal storage, and have it be aesthetically pleasing.

Sorry, went off on a tangent for a moment.

[Joe A Faulkner]

The stress on the mortise walls will be on the sides facing towards the end of the bench, not the front or back edges of the bench. So from a strength stand point, especially using square dogs, I can't think of any work holding applications that are going to stress your 1" sized sidewall of your dog holes.